The volume is too damn high on flights • Hacker News Board

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#161

Post by raldi » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:30 PM UTC

bashinator wrote: post #159

raldi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to use an inline volume control, like this: http://mobile.walmart.com/ip/Koss-In-Line-Headphone-Volume-C... Then turn the airplane's volume to max and adjust your inline volume to a comfortable level. In my experience, the announcements will then also be at a comfortable level.

In my experience, the announcements are always in the top 95% of the channel's dynamic range. Setting the volume such that the announcements are at a reasonable level renders everything else way too quiet.

But, in my experience, the way that's implemented is that when there's an announcement, everyone's volume is temporarily overridden to 100%.

Hence my solution: Set things up so your volume is always at 100%, and the inline volume control device is throttling that down to a comfortable level.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#162

Post by bashinator » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #132

specialist wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a father and fan of live music: I get cranky when I see kids without ear protection, especially toddlers and younger, who have no control or way to escape. I make a point of praising the parents who put ear muffs on their infants.

Why make the music so loud as to require hearing protection? That seems inefficient.

Because the experience of being physically vibrated by the compression waves in the air is amazingly sublime. There's a reason people don't start dancing until you hit a certain volume level.

I wear musician-quality earplugs.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#163

Post by TheLoneWolfling » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:33 PM UTC

murbard2 wrote: post #15

SunShiranui wrote: post #8

I've always wanted to buy some good earplugs to protect my hearing from noisy environments (es. near public transport in the city). Does anyone have a product they recommend?

I own the "Etymotic Research ER20 ETY-Plugs", about $13 on Amazon Prime. They're much more comfortable than the cheap foam ones you can buy, they actually stay in your hear, and the tube means that you can still hear high frequencies. They reduce the surrounding volume rather than attempt to mute it. This makes them great for concerts. There are also much more expensive concert earplugs for musicians, which do an eve…

I have the same ones. They are great, although I find them getting uncomfortable if wearing them for an extended period of time. Then again, I haven't found a set of earplugs for which that is not the case, so take that with a grain of salt.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#164

Post by warble » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #84

Alupis wrote: post #56

Few thoughts: > and opened the decibel meter on my iPhone These are notoriously inaccurate. To get accurate decibel readings, the mic must be calibrated to absolute known levels (something your App can't do). The App's are basically just comparing relative sounds (this sound is more prominent than this other one, and therefore must be louder... after establishing some relative baseline). Real decibel measuring equipm…

> These are notoriously inaccurate. Actually, if you pick the correct app they are surprisingly accurate: http://scitation.aip.org/content/asa/journal/jasa/135/4/10.1...

From the referenced study: "The measurements were conducted in a diffuse sound field at a reverberant noise chamber at the NIOSH acoustic testing laboratory. The diffuse sound field ensured that the location and size of the smartphones did not influence the results of the study. "

Having done sound testing extensively, you can be sure in an airplane positioning and sound source and sound type can drastically impact your measurements. Multiple reflections can re-enforce, or reduce the measured level. The type of sound measured is very important as well.

He's not measuring pink noise on the airplane, what the measured level of a particular sound is, needs to be normalized to really understand what effects it will have on you.

I'm sure in a good test setup the smartphone can get you pretty darned close. I'm more concerned with this guy's test setup than the equipment used.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#165

Post by e40 » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 10:02 PM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #125

e40 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PA system is not there just to provide something to listen to in case you are bored. Yeah, but there's no reason for the people operating the PA to blast our ears for mundane drivel. I was on a flight last weekend where, because I was right next to a speaker, I had to cover my ears for 5 minutes while the flight attendant droned on about non-emergency stuff. It was so loud it hurt my ears. I already have tinnitus…

The PA system is used to announce to the cabin non-trivial details: emergency exits, how the safety features of the airplane work, what is expected of passengers during the flight, flight times, expected turbulence, late arrivals, etc. These are not "mundane" details.

90% wasn't related to non-trivial details. I was there, ahduhl. Credit card offers, menu options, etc.

The safety talk was at the beginning of the flight and it was much lower in volume than what I'm talking about.

My guess is that the attendant's mouth was too close to the mic and they were just talking way too loud.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#166

Post by aembleton » Fri, Feb 06, 2015, 10:07 PM UTC

ufmace wrote: post #128

I could believe it. I just flew Spirit (never again, for reasons in addition to this) a couple of weeks ago, and they spent the last 20 minutes or so of the flight hawking some kind of credit card deal. Even wearing earplugs barely put a dent in the volume.

ah, that sounds like Ryanair.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#167

Post by GrinningFool » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #138

GrinningFool wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the hearing protection I've used when shooting seemed designed to disrupt the sound wave move than actually reduce it. You can achieve reasonable short-term protection by holding your hands flat over your ears. It doesn't reduce the subjective volume, but it does [anecdotally] prevent subsequent symptoms that indicate temporary or long-term damage has occurred.

> You can achieve reasonable short-term protection by holding your hands flat over your ears. Not flat... that won't do much. They must be cupped... basically you make a letter "C" with your hands then old that up to your ear with your side of your palm (pinky side) resting on your temple. This will deflect the sound wave around your ear. Old-school artillery trick.

Thanks - I was thinking in comparison to "sticking fingers into ears", could've phrased it better.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#168

Post by jcrawfordor » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 5:39 AM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #93

dikaiosune wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably worth noting that shooting without "ears" can still leave you basically unable to hear anything for a good while depending on the firearm, shooting environment, etc. It's not an instant ear-bleeding rupture but it's still VERY loud and will cause significant hearing loss with little repetition. Side note: I'm always curious how soldiers/SWAT/HRT/etc. are able to hold normal volume conversations. If they're w…

I would guess that they use more expensive hearing protection systems with an active electronic system to pass through sounds at a comfortable level, attenuate louder and potentially damaging noises, and possibly even amplify quiet sounds. The technology would be similar to that used in hearing aids and noise-cancelling headphones. But it is also probably an order of magnitude or two more expensive just because the p…

Usually the ear protection used just has a simple narrow channel. This is effective in attenuating loud sounds without impacting quieter sounds as much. The name brand I'm most familiar with are the SureFire Sonic Defenders. They're in-ear, not very visible without the retention cord attached unless you're specifically looking for them.

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#169

Post by colin_mccabe » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 8:31 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #95

azth wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wear them in the car Hopefully not while driving though :)

Why not? Attenuating all sound doesn't have a huge impact on what you're able to hear.

It's illegal, at least in California.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_...

"A person operating a motor vehicle or bicycle may not wear a headset covering, or earplugs in, both ears."

Re: The volume is too damn high on flights

#170

Post by cnvogel » Sat, Feb 07, 2015, 10:16 AM UTC

MiguelVieira wrote: post #90

Alupis wrote: post #56

Few thoughts: > and opened the decibel meter on my iPhone These are notoriously inaccurate. To get accurate decibel readings, the mic must be calibrated to absolute known levels (something your App can't do). The App's are basically just comparing relative sounds (this sound is more prominent than this other one, and therefore must be louder... after establishing some relative baseline). Real decibel measuring equipm…

Is a db meter on an iPhone really inaccurate? This recent article from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health suggests otherwise: > for A-weighted sound level measurements three apps had mean differences within ± 2dBA of the reference measurements. For un-weighted sound level measurements three apps had mean differences within the ± 2 dB of the reference measurement. Since national standards and oc…

±2dBA would already be much more precise than what you'd need to assess if a certain sound pressure level can be endured for an extended period of time safely, or not.

To put it in numbers: ±3dB is doubling/halving of Power, but humans typically perceive a change of ±10dB as doubling/halving of "Volume". Also the damaging effects of noise typically scale as double-the-power, half-the time.

And personally I'd rather not be in the situation where I'd ponder if the damage to my hearing is double or half what it should be if my iPhone app were accurate: I'd rather have it show numbers that are 20dB below this level, so that I can be assured of no significant damage at all!