Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 215 posts

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#161

Post by m_mueller »

refurb wrote: post #127
dllthomas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent's point was that democracy is failing to do good, but that America is failing to do democracy.

Tell me what country isn't by your standards? Show me a list of democratic countries and I have no doubt I could dig up some really evil stuff on every single one of them. Don't take my comment as an excuse or an argument that's it's OK. Governments are run by humans which regularly mess up despite their high hopes.

So, because others are doing some evil things as well, one is not allowed to compare and hold their government to higher standards than they have now?

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#162

Post by zaroth »

Cyther606 wrote: post #154
lavamantis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people '"believe" in their government'? Do a search for "poll americans believing in government". Most polls will show I agree with your last statement completely. The trick is to get people to get knowledgeable (or even care) about history and what is happening in the country. Right about now, it seems to be we're more tending towards "Brave New World" than "1984". If people could just turn off 30 minutes a day…

Fear and ignorance are the problem, not trust. The fear of being tossed in jail. The fear of having your children taken away. The fear of having your assets seized and your reputation tarnished forever. Ignorance of societal trends. Endless warfare, welfare and imperialism fueled by an unprecedented debt bubble. Civil asset forfeiture out of control. The TSA security theatre is encroaching on not just airports but fo…

Had me up until Bitcoin. They most certainly can seize it. They most certainly can mine it. And they most certainly could shut it down if they wanted to. With those same tactics you were mentioning earlier. Bitcoin is P2P but it is not anonymous.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#163

Post by [deleted] »

internet_arguer wrote: post #135
comrade1 wrote: post #52

This was in the 1960s. Imagine the projects being conceived now for targeting individuals and population subsets to change opinion, mood, etc. using things like social media, targeted communications, etc. The US then and now was totalitarian and authoritarian. Some of you, especially here on hn, may not fall into those mind-sets but it doesn't matter - you've lost - you're barely scraping by, working 60 to 80 hours a…

I'll bite. From one troll account to another. It's interesting when someone from Switzerland claims the moral high ground about a country's past wrongs. Switzerland has a colorful history of Nazi collaboration and laundering of stolen treasure by the 3rd Reich. Is that an unfair characterization of you as a modern Swiss person? Yes. Just like comparing 1960s America to the present day. The U.S. may not live up to the…

[deleted]

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#164

Post by spopejoy »

opendais wrote: post #5

Tbh, this is what scares me about tech illiterate juries. Many of these cases hang on key pieces of evidence that are literally the FBI's word against the defendants.

Why would a tech-savvy jury be more inclined to discount testimony or non-technical evidence from the prosecution? It seems that the word of law enforcement has an advantage in the courtroom regardless of someone's literacy in any field.

In any case, I think a bigger problem isn't juries, but the huge amount of cases that never see a jury, via absurd overcharges leading to plea bargains. Only a judge is involved, and judges are much more "reliable" than a jury ...

Besides, when would an incident like this ever get in front of a jury? I can't think of a single case where the FBI was in the dock for COINTELPRO shenanigans like this.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#165

Post by adventured »

comrade1 wrote: post #147
adventured wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is less desperate? I don't think so, unless you're only counting about five countries as being Europe. Spain has 30% real unemployment. France's economy hasn't grown in ten years in inflation adjusted terms, and is suffering hyper stagnation; it has averaged sub 1% nominal GDP growth for that time. Italy is on its third recession in seven years. Portugal is so relatively poor their middle class would barely qu…

Just like I wouldn't recommend a European take a job in Mississippi I wouldn't advise an American take work in Poland.

You were pretending Poland didn't exist: you said life was more desperate in the US than in Europe, while pretending most of the countries in Europe aren't in the same economic boat as Poland (when in fact they are). Europe != Switzerland / Norway / Sweden.

France just saw its unemployment rate hit new highs. The US unemployment rate is now almost half that of France.

In fact, the US unemployment rate is chasing back down toward that of Germany, and the US economy is growing faster than Germany's. And that's with a labor force participation rate higher than nearly all of Europe; ~7 points higher than France, ~3 points higher than Germany, ~10 points higher than Belgium etc.

With available labor being substantially reduced, wages are likely to begin climbing again in the US soon - you aren't going to see that in most of the countries of Europe, because their economies are not growing.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#167

Post by encoderer »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #138
jobu wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." - Winston Churchill

Part of the myth is that the US is actually democratic. A democracy is supposed to be 'rule of the people', as opposed to aristocracy, 'rule of the elite'. What you have in the US is a system where politicians are all either elites in society, or vetted by elites. Where they manage to convince or coerce a 'big enough' group of people to vote for them (ie. half or just over half of voters that actually turn out, which…

> How representative is the US' democracy? As representative as the people as a whole choose it to be. Which is criteria enough for a democracy.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#168

Post by grecy »

eyeareque wrote: post #159
Mikeb85 wrote: post #19

It continually amazes me that Americans can perpetuate the myth that their government is a democratic, moral force in the world given everything they have done, and are still doing...

In US schools we are taught from a young age about our "democracy" that we have here. By the time we realize it is all a big lie, we're much older. If only we were able to teach our youngsters what really happens in politics in school.

> By the time we realize it is all a big lie, we're much older

And so far in debt and worry about healthcare you never again get a change to have your head above water and have a look around.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#169

Post by snowwrestler »

comrade1 wrote: post #52

This was in the 1960s. Imagine the projects being conceived now for targeting individuals and population subsets to change opinion, mood, etc. using things like social media, targeted communications, etc. The US then and now was totalitarian and authoritarian. Some of you, especially here on hn, may not fall into those mind-sets but it doesn't matter - you've lost - you're barely scraping by, working 60 to 80 hours a…

If you think you're shocking anyone with your accusations, you're kidding yourself. Paranoia is the default mindset of the American people.

BTW, it's a mindset that is often mocked by Europeans when it comes to subjects like health care, vacation, taxes, guns, etc. But the reasons for it seem obvious now, don't they?

The idea that the U.K., German, or Swiss governments are less authoritarian than the U.S. is laughable to U.S. citizens. You can't see it because you trust those governments; but most Americans got over that a long time ago.

Re: What an Uncensored Letter to M.L.K. Reveals

#170

Post by snowwrestler »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #19

It continually amazes me that Americans can perpetuate the myth that their government is a democratic, moral force in the world given everything they have done, and are still doing...

What's the alternative, to just throw up our hands and sob into tea?

What you call a myth, we call an ideal. Are we living up to it right now? No. That doesn't mean we should discard it. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Post reply on HN