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Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

theguardian.com

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Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#161

Post by desdiv »

Someone1234 wrote: post #126
desdiv wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to return to the US and live there permanently, for one.

But US citizens living abroad have to file tax returns even when they don't exercise that right. They could live abroad for the remainder of their life and have to file (under IRS rules). That seems like a very flimsy argument for why US nationals abroad have to file tax returns.

If I have a second house that I never use I still have to pay tax on it. The tax man doesn't care whether I use it or not.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#162

Post by refurb »

opendais wrote: post #154
refurb wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a second. You claim it's Republican Spin and the evidence you provide is that the IRS targeted three Democratic non-profits?

One of which was stripped of their status. Of the targeted group, less than a third were Republicans. If you bothered to put any effort into researching it you'd turn up the keyword list that includes the keywords. I'm not sure why I get downvotes because I don't do all the work for people making accusations. Since you are lazy: http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/04/new-documents-show-t... http://www.scribd.com/col…

You keep posting links that don't support your claims.

Let's see, from your first link: According to ThinkProgress's analysis of the heavily redacted "be on the lookout" lists, the IRS may have targeted a higher number of progressive groups than conservative groups overall.

Really? ThinkProgress, a left-leaning organization, did an analysis that showed they weren't targeting conservatives, in fact they were mostly targeting progressive groups.

Provide a decent source and we can have a conversation.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#163

Post by opendais »

refurb wrote: post #162
opendais wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of which was stripped of their status. Of the targeted group, less than a third were Republicans. If you bothered to put any effort into researching it you'd turn up the keyword list that includes the keywords. I'm not sure why I get downvotes because I don't do all the work for people making accusations. Since you are lazy: http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/04/new-documents-show-t... http://www.scribd.com/col…

You keep posting links that don't support your claims. Let's see, from your first link: According to ThinkProgress's analysis of the heavily redacted "be on the lookout" lists, the IRS may have targeted a higher number of progressive groups than conservative groups overall. Really? ThinkProgress, a left-leaning organization, did an analysis that showed they weren't targeting conservatives, in fact they were mostly ta…

...I provided you the actual documents as well as articles with links to actual government reports from Congress.

Okay. So what your saying is, no source is acceptable.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#164

Post by mcosta »

sitharus wrote: post #96
sergiotapia wrote: post #13

I'm going through this IRS bullshit -personally-. I was under the impression filing taxes was simple, hell why would they make it complicated. But nope, if you live abroad it's twice as complicated for an ex-pat. Worse still, if you're self-employed (like I am) and a freelancer it's ever more paperwork and edge cases to be careful of. And the cherry on top! Software engineers have a whole different set of tax rules.…

As someone quite familiar with the situation, you're better off saying "Fuck you Intuit". They spend millions of dollars a year lobbying to keep the tax system complex. You can start here: http://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-... For what it's worth, as a dual citizen of UK and New Zealand I've only filed a tax return twice in my life - when I was a contractor.

It is nice the article mentions Spain. Here you can just give the OK via web signing with a personal certificate issued by the government. But we have a National Identity Document (direct translation from Spanish: Documento Nacional de Identidad) with a nice chip where we can store the certificate [1]. Cons: we must carry it any where we go and show it to the police on request. I believe in USA that would be unimaginable because... you know... government control.

BTW, thanks god Firefox supports client certificates and I sign from Linux.

1: http://www.dnielectronico.es/oficina_prensa/imagenes/modelo_...

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#165

Post by clamprecht »

Sambdala wrote: post #105
clamprecht wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your comments except the money laundering part. For money laundering, doesn't the source of the proceeds have to be illegal?

No. It used to be an "ancillary" crime, but now it's simply illegal to move money while looking like you're trying to hide the source.

I think you're thinking of "structuring", not money laundering. Can you cite a US statute? Money laundering is 18 U.S.C. section 1956, for example.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#166

Post by wmil »

Someone1234 wrote: post #39
wmil wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it's more of a "check this box to verify you are not a US citizen" system. The bank could then charge your account fees if you lied and they had to deal with the IRS. I actually think the US tax return laws are reasonable -- there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have.

> there have to be some obligations for citizens to go along with the rights they have US Citizens abroad have no real legal rights. edit: All the downvoters want to weigh in on exactly what a US citizen living outside of the US gains in terms of "rights?"

The US gov will make substantial efforts to help you if you're caught in a war zone. That's a big plus if you live or travel to dangerous areas. I'm a Canadian, but I've heard stories about people working overseas with other foreign workers. When things get bad the American's are quickly evacuated, other not so quickly.

Also if you ever move to the US you immediately, or at least very quickly, qualify for programs you never paid into. Medicare if you're old, in state tuition if you have kids, etc.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#167

Post by ggambetta »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #158
ggambetta wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some tourism, sure, go for it! Summer is best, besides Montevideo you should check out Punta del Este and Colonia.

By "summer", I presume you mean summer below the equator - December, January, February. (When Australia hosted the Summer Olympics, it was actually winter in Australia.)

Yes, of course. Local summer. January is probably the best time.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#168

Post by claudius »

Someone1234 wrote: post #127
claudius wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a random aside: The US Gov is practically the only country in the world who tries to collect income tax from US citizens living abroad. The fact that Americans who move away have to file US tax returns for the remainder of their life is bonkers. Hm, I can somewhat understand that? If I was moving out of Germany and got into trouble abroad, I would expect (and receive) help from the German consulate/government. P…

That's not how that works. If you get into trouble within a country where you have citizenship, another country where you also have citizenship won't intervene. So for example, if you were a citizen in the US and Canada, and got into trouble in Canada the US would not assist you. However if you were on holiday in Canada or even a permanent resident then they would. See Part III bullet 5: http://germany.usembassy.gov/…

True, but the grandparent did not say a word about dual citizenship, merely about Americans who moved abroad. I can understand issues arising from dual citizenship and I am personally not a fan of that being even an option to people, in part due to these issues.

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#169

Post by tomp »

MichaelGG wrote: post #91
philiphodgen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All USD transactions clear through the Fed. If you are a bad bank they might not clear your USD transactions. That could be bad for business.

What prevents another system being put in place, if other banks agree to use it?

It's illegal (one of the missions of US Secret Service is to ensure that there are no other currencies used in the US, and they have cracked down e.g. on Las Vegas casino tokens being used in surrounding restaurants to pay for drinks).

Re: Americans abroad are giving up their citizenship as banks shut down accounts

#170

Post by tomp »

viraptor wrote: post #41
tomp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks operate as "one bank per country" (actually, per currency), as the only way to hold e.g. USD is to be incorporated on US soil. However, these are just subsidiaries, owned by the multi-national corporation. Any country can say "comply to our rules or don't do business here", but only a few countries are lucrative enough to actually have any power over foreign subsidiaries.

What do you mean by "the only way to hold e.g. USD is to be incorporated on US soil"? I have some USD and thankfully have no relation to the US. Do you mean bank regulations? That seems to contradict for example Lloyds Bank in the UK having current accounts in USD.

AFAIK, those USD accounts are actually opened at a US subsidiary of the foreign bank. Only US banks can get support of the US banking system (electronic transfers, overnight interest rates, loans). While you could run a USD bank abroad, it would have to be a mostly cash-only operation...
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