Apple Said to Be in Talks to Buy Beats for $3.2 Billion • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Said to Be in Talks to Buy Beats for $3.2 Billion

#161

Post by bherms » Fri, May 09, 2014, 11:16 PM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #146

b1daly wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people aren't getting in this thread is that modern pop and hip hop is engineered to be played on systems with a lot of bass (sub woofers). Ironically this forces the engineer to limit the amount of bass in the mix, so there some truth to the claim that a headphone with exaggerated bass will produce a sound closer to the intention of the artist. I think they sound horrendous (I'm an audio engineer) but I have a…

"What people aren't getting in this thread is that modern pop and hip hop is engineered to be played on systems with a lot of bass (sub woofers). Ironically this forces the engineer to limit the amount of bass in the mix, so there some truth to the claim that a headphone with exaggerated bass will produce a sound closer to the intention of the artist." Not true. Engineers working in pop and hip hop mix primarily with…

Yep, mix with best headphones/monitors you can find, master with cheap earbuds.

Re: Apple Said to Be in Talks to Buy Beats for $3.2 Billion

#162

Post by sjwright » Fri, May 09, 2014, 11:18 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #128

sjwright wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll go one further and assert that in a noisy environment, the Bose QC15 have the absolute best overall sound quality of any headphone I'm aware of. By a very, very long mark. I had a few very sophisticated sets of expensive headphones (plus a headphone amplifier) and I just don't use them any more. When I don't need to wear headphones, I'll sit down in my theatre room. When I need to wear headphones, it's because I…

Even Beyerdynamic 770 Pro? I tried active noise canceling in the past, but found the sound ultimately fatiguing. I prefer passive cancellation now, and 10db is a significant amount of isolation.

Absolutely; the 770 Pro are one of the cans I own (the 80 ohms model). They're exactly the set I reach for when I want to listen at home with privacy.

In a noisy environment though, they just can't compete. Yes, the 770 Pro have excellent passive isolation characteristics, but they do absolutely nothing for low frequencies [0] whereas the QC15 achieves 20db [1]. This makes all the difference in the world when you're trying to escape into music while flying.

I know what you mean about active noise cancelling being fatiguing. I've been lured into noise cancellation before, only to be repelled by the strange feeling of pressure within the ear. I wouldn't have given a moment's consideration to the QC15 had I not been loaned a pair by a friend. I'm not going to say the QC15 are perfect for everyone, but to my ears the pressure phenomenon is pretty much nonexistent. I've worn them for an entire 13 hour flight without a moment's discomfort.

[0] http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT770.pdf

[1] http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BoseQuietComfort15.pdf

Re: Apple Said to Be in Talks to Buy Beats for $3.2 Billion

#163

Post by SwellJoe » Sat, May 10, 2014, 12:43 AM UTC

bherms wrote: post #161

SwellJoe wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What people aren't getting in this thread is that modern pop and hip hop is engineered to be played on systems with a lot of bass (sub woofers). Ironically this forces the engineer to limit the amount of bass in the mix, so there some truth to the claim that a headphone with exaggerated bass will produce a sound closer to the intention of the artist." Not true. Engineers working in pop and hip hop mix primarily with…

Yep, mix with best headphones/monitors you can find, master with cheap earbuds.

Good mastering requires accurate monitors, as well. Every stage gets tested in various types of speakers and playback devices and formats (so, the engineer checks it out in their car on the way to the studio, on their iPod, on their laptop, etc., as does the mastering engineer). There is no stage where the engineer (recording or mastering) doesn't want an accurate monitoring setup, however. And, there is no stage where checking the mix against various listening environments is a bad idea. High dollar recordings are listened to hundreds of times by at least a half dozen people on the way to being shipped to listeners.

Re: Apple Said to Be in Talks to Buy Beats for $3.2 Billion

#164

Post by b1daly » Sat, May 10, 2014, 4:22 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #163

bherms wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, mix with best headphones/monitors you can find, master with cheap earbuds.

Good mastering requires accurate monitors, as well. Every stage gets tested in various types of speakers and playback devices and formats (so, the engineer checks it out in their car on the way to the studio, on their iPod, on their laptop, etc., as does the mastering engineer). There is no stage where the engineer (recording or mastering) doesn't want an accurate monitoring setup, however. And, there is no stage whe…

I'm probably commenting more on my experience, which does not extend to actual hits. But I am called on to emulate the sound. It has been a struggle to get the bass right, often I find if I mix to have perceptually a lot of bass on, let's say small computer speakers, it's easy to have blown out bass on a system with a sub.

The bottom line is that virtually all playback systems that exist in the real world are nothing remotely like an accurate studio monitor. The engineer is always concerned with how the mix translates to different systems. In this process accurate monitoring is profoundly helpful, but that doesn't mean the engineer expects any listeners to have such a system.

Bass enhanced headphones like Beats have become yet another listening environment to be considered.

Re: Apple Said to Be in Talks to Buy Beats for $3.2 Billion

#165

Post by gregsq » Sat, May 10, 2014, 4:27 AM UTC

RogerL wrote: post #160

gregsq wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was downvoted for a snarky comment about having to replace Beats if they were provided as the standard quality for iPhones in particular. OK that's fair. But with what I believe to have been Job's fastidious attention to quality, I find it difficult to understand how he would have accepted the sound quality. The branding issue has a certain, even large value, but there's also the loss of reputation for quality that…

Those earbuds that came with every iPod were pretty poor quality, IMO, and they were released under Jobs' oversight.

My first ever downvoted comment alluded to the fact that my iphone earbuds were never used and collected dust in a drawer. The first pair I had with an iPod were quickly replaced by cheap AKG's costing about $7, and the pair in the drawer I gave to a lady customer in an apple store who I overheard asking about them. I arranged to give them to her for free. No use wasting them really.

The iPod and iPhone earbuds seem to me to be an anomaly. They are one of the few areas where it appeared style trumped substance. I can get similar Chinese knockoffs for about a dollar from different places. The cirrus chips and surrounding electronics in the iPhone, and Wolfson's in some iPods are quite capable musically.

My point is more about the legend of Jobs the perfectionist that I've heard so much about in these and other pages. If he were to turn his attention to the earbuds and headphones then I find it incongruous that he would have let the reputation of mediocrity with the Beats sound rest unopposed.

I myself see this as a slide away from innovation.