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Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

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Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#161

Post by D_Alex »

jesusmichael wrote: post #148
D_Alex wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comment has so much bullshit in it - here is a sampling: >The statement that electric motors have fewer moving parts so they last substantially longer is a fallacy No, it is true on all counts. I'd explain in detail, but this is so weird I dont really know where to start. >90% of a vehicle's maintenance has nothing to do with its motor Rubbish. In a gasoline (or diesel) powered car, the majority of maintenance i…

I should have stated "electric vehicles" vs "electric cars". However you really don't have the slightest idea about the motor that's in the Tesla. Which is a 3 phase induction motor. There's a lot that goes into converting DC battery power to AC and then controlling the torque. Heat is another issue that will have to be dealt with as well and the latest announcement from Tesla is that they will be adding a water cool…

>I'm sure you're an idealistic kid that thinks green is good

I am the engineering manager for the Australian branch of one of the world's largest oil and gas contractors. I graduated with 1st class honours in mechanical engineering, and have 25 years of work experience. Idealistic - yes, thinks green is good - yes, my career notwithstanding. Kid - I wish...

>However you really don't have the slightest idea about the motor that's in the Tesla ... ... There's a lot that goes into converting DC battery power to AC

Actually, I have a pretty good idea about both of these things. A really very good idea in fact, helped a bit by my visit last week to the factories that make high speed AC motors and inverters that drive them.

>knows that ignition=starting

Dude, just stop already.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#162

Post by ericd »

jesusmichael wrote: post #144
ericd wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making an assertion that runs counter to the common wisdom that electric cars will require less maintenance, so the burden of proof is on you. The fact that you can't find brushless motors online that retail for less than $10k is not convincing, because it's a new use case, a unique design, and they're not selling them outside of cars. You don't know what the pricing is. As far as materials, that amount of cop…

So your logic tells you that Tesla has "invented" an electric motor, so rugged that it can withstand that riggers of being inside a consumer vehicle on the open road with a novice operator, in various environmental conditions, that is a fraction of the cost of similarly powered electric motors that operate in static environments, such as a factory floor, with experienced operators and fixed maintenance schedules? Wow…

You're bringing up a lot of irrelevant stuff.

Novice operator - the operator of the motor itself is the control electronics, not the driver. If the operator can do something to damage the motor, the design is faulty.

Industrial electrical motors and control electronics like those in robots have completely different tolerance requirements, and are made in relatively low volumes, and so there are fewer units to support development costs.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#164

Post by bradleyland »

brc wrote: post #76
dave1619 wrote: post #35

To help some understand why the Model S could be "cheaper" to own vs a Honda Odyssey it's important to understand a few factors: 1. Low fuel costs - electricity is way cheaper than gas and when you factor in gas savings over 8 years, you get substantial savings (ie., $20k over 8 years if driving 15k miles a year, of course depends on gas prices and electricity prices). 2. Low maintenance costs - there's no oil change…

It's wrong to think that the majority of service costs as vehicles age is in the engine and oil changes. Most new cars engines/tranmsmissions will go very large distances with no mechanical failure if serviced properly. Exceptions exist, but for the most part, engines are durable and have minimal service requirements. Cars must have suspension replacements, plus fixed for lots of little car systems that can start fai…

I think the parent poster is making an "all things being equal" comparison, where all of the things you mentioned should be equal when comparing to a car with an ICE.

For example, both the Tesla Model S and a Honda Oyssey will, presumably, require suspension replacement after a similar term when driven on the same roads by the same person. Likewise for windscreen washers and other sub-systems. Given the level of engineering and attention to detail in the design of the Model S, we should expect these systems to be of equal or greater quality than their traditional motorcar equivalents.

The point is that it appears the EV components won't negatively impact residual value as many EV-naysayers have been touting all along. "Just wait till that expensive battery pack only takes half a charge in 3 years!" That's the kind of sentiment that the parent poster was refuting.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#165

Post by jesusmichael »

ericd wrote: post #162
jesusmichael wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your logic tells you that Tesla has "invented" an electric motor, so rugged that it can withstand that riggers of being inside a consumer vehicle on the open road with a novice operator, in various environmental conditions, that is a fraction of the cost of similarly powered electric motors that operate in static environments, such as a factory floor, with experienced operators and fixed maintenance schedules? Wow…

You're bringing up a lot of irrelevant stuff. Novice operator - the operator of the motor itself is the control electronics, not the driver. If the operator can do something to damage the motor, the design is faulty. Industrial electrical motors and control electronics like those in robots have completely different tolerance requirements, and are made in relatively low volumes, and so there are fewer units to support…

relatively low volumes? Nearly every machine in every factory in the world has an electric motor of some ilk.. Have you ever been in a factory?

The novice operator and put the machine itself in a situation in which it will not operate correctly, extreme cold, flood, etc. Steep grade + Lead Foot = burnt coil. While I do agree with you to some extent... there is some user input... but motors in Tesla... are still pretty complex..

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#166

Post by jesusmichael »

D_Alex wrote: post #161
jesusmichael wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have stated "electric vehicles" vs "electric cars". However you really don't have the slightest idea about the motor that's in the Tesla. Which is a 3 phase induction motor. There's a lot that goes into converting DC battery power to AC and then controlling the torque. Heat is another issue that will have to be dealt with as well and the latest announcement from Tesla is that they will be adding a water cool…

>I'm sure you're an idealistic kid that thinks green is good I am the engineering manager for the Australian branch of one of the world's largest oil and gas contractors. I graduated with 1st class honours in mechanical engineering, and have 25 years of work experience. Idealistic - yes, thinks green is good - yes, my career notwithstanding. Kid - I wish... >However you really don't have the slightest idea about the…

well hey... I thought the ignition/starting thing was funny. I like the idea of green too. I don't see tesla as green. the tech isn't there yet. and if you've been on this planet as long as I have... you know there is NOTHING revolutionary about induction motors (circa 1889) or lithium batteries(circa 1979)... I don't like the idea of highly subsidized innovation. If products can't stand on their own... forcing them down the consumers throat doesn't make them better.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#168

Post by ericd »

jesusmichael wrote: post #165
ericd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're bringing up a lot of irrelevant stuff. Novice operator - the operator of the motor itself is the control electronics, not the driver. If the operator can do something to damage the motor, the design is faulty. Industrial electrical motors and control electronics like those in robots have completely different tolerance requirements, and are made in relatively low volumes, and so there are fewer units to support…

relatively low volumes? Nearly every machine in every factory in the world has an electric motor of some ilk.. Have you ever been in a factory? The novice operator and put the machine itself in a situation in which it will not operate correctly, extreme cold, flood, etc. Steep grade + Lead Foot = burnt coil. While I do agree with you to some extent... there is some user input... but motors in Tesla... are still prett…

I meant that the individual models of industrial motors are made in low volumes relative to the motors in a mass manufactured product like the Model S, not that there weren't many electric motors in industry. There obviously are quite a lot of them involved in industry, but they come in many types, each of which has to pay back its own development budget.

Re: Tesla Model S – Cost of Ownership vs. Honda Odyssey

#169

Post by scragg »

joezydeco wrote: post #55

Out of curiosity - what does it cost to have an electrician install a 240VAC outlet in your garage? Has anyone out there done it and can give an idea? Teslas can charge off a 110 outlet, but they recommend using the 240 volt faster-charging unit. But most houses don't run 2-phase power out to the garage. And what if you don't own a house? What do apartment and/or house renters do for charging?

Cost me $125
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