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Inclusiveness at Mozilla

brendaneich.com

161–170 of 196 posts

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#161
post #130

This is not even close to good enough. I will continue to refuse to use Firefox out of general principle.

What do you truly know about the political views of the individuals involved in producing the other web browsers?

Far less than what I know about that of Eich.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#162

This is not even close to good enough. I will continue to refuse to use Firefox out of general principle.

How about Iceweasel or GNU Icecat? It's free software, man. You have your anger focused on the wrong things.

[shrug] I guess I could use either of those, but Chrome suits me fine, thanks.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#163

This is not even close to good enough. I will continue to refuse to use Firefox out of general principle.

So what is good enough? That Eich resign over his personal opinions? That he abandon his personal ethics for business reasons? That he demonstrate his good faith by paying a modern-day indulgence to an advocacy group? Or is Eich now irredeemable?

Whether or not Eich is redeemable is unknown. In the meantime, I refuse to support any company that he leads. It's that simple.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, thanks. I'm not in the US so my context is weak. My reaction would be to get rid of the provisions. In a free society, the government will have no role in the bedroom. Extending it into micromanaging relationships is a step in the wrong direction. The best code is the code we throw away.

The vast majority of rights that are bound to marriage in the us have nothing whatsoever to do with "the bedroom" but rather practical matters like visiting your chosen spouse in the hospital or not having your non-citizen spouse deported or receiving benefits if your spouse is killed while serving in the military. Another good example is the right to file taxes jointly which can have a huge impact on your joint inco…

OK, I'm convinced. But don't forget about that deprecation team.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#165

Wait, wait, hold on. Folks, this man isn't a politician, he isn't a social crusader, he isn't using his position as a platform. At worst, he's rich. He hasn't taken the throne, or even government office; he's the CEO of a private corporation that makes web browsers of all things. Now, sure, he might be against gay marriage. And you might disagree, and have a variety of principles to back your position. But why do we…

Actually Mozilla is a non-profit that has a corporate entity for legal purposes. It's not exactly a regular private corporation. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#166

I'm happy he said something. He didn't have to.

Unfortunately, he did have to. Eich holds an opinion that, while apparently shared with the majority of Californian voters (as per Prop 8 results), is deeply unpopular with segments of the technical population. These are some of the folks who will help promote and test Mozilla's future releases. They are part of Mozilla's customer base. He had to apologize, because these days holding a politically incorrect opinion i…

Why is this unfortunate? I don't understand your perspective.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of... > According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are 1,138 statutory provisions[1] in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges. These rights were a key issue in the debate over federal recognition of same-sex marriage. For 2012 he proactively spent good money to ensure LGBT should not…

Prop 8 was in 2008, not 2012.

My mistake and too late to edit now. Thanks for the correction.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#168

Nothing in the post indicates he's reversed his stance on prohibiting his gay employees from marrying.

Which companies have CEOs that have the power to prevent anyone from marrying?

When did he prohibit his gay employees from marrying? Or has any actions of his in the management of mozilla been proven to be to the detriment of gay employees?

If not, what is all this witchhunt about?

it is true that gay people were hurt, so they need to take extra care now that they do not start a new witchhunt.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#169
post #115
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of question, in fact the entire uproar, presumes that Brendan Eich is a hateful bigoted person with an agenda, or at least that he has some kind of dangerous impulse we should worry about. Do you think his stomach turns when he's around gay people? I don't believe it for a moment. If anything he probably just feels afraid that someone's going to attack him and accuse him of bigotry. Homophobia and oppositio…

>Homophobia and opposition to gay marriage are in my opinion completely different issues In the same way as Racism and support for Apartheid are completely orthogonal. Come on...

I am not the OP, but you have a point, they are not completely orthogonal.

For instance, I do know many people who oppose gay marriage but are not homophobic.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#170

Wait, wait, hold on. Folks, this man isn't a politician, he isn't a social crusader, he isn't using his position as a platform. At worst, he's rich. He hasn't taken the throne, or even government office; he's the CEO of a private corporation that makes web browsers of all things. Now, sure, he might be against gay marriage. And you might disagree, and have a variety of principles to back your position. But why do we…

Here in the US we're in the middle of a debate about what views are socially acceptable and which are not. The tide is turning against views and policies which disadvantage gays as a category of people simply because they are gay.

Thus it's not a question of whether someone's sub-human but whether or not we, as a society, find those views acceptable. Pro-slavery or nakedly white supremacist views fall into a similar category. I believe anti-gay bigotry is drifting towards that axis. While those views are protected, that's orthogonal to whether they're subject to criticism.

Also, "tea party" or "pro-NSA" or "anti-NASA" are not really classes of people, considering they're elective categories.

Honestly I am not very sympathetic. Substitute any other form of prejudice and "I don't demand perfect agreement" starts to sound more and more like apologism for bigotry. I'm sure that's not your intention but the contours are similar.

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