This is why I use VLC. On the white polycarb apple macbooks the audio is really quiet. VLC made it useful by allowing me to turn the audio up louder (up to 200%). No damage to speakers here.
Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
161–170 of 224 posts
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#162As the main developer of VLC, we know about this story since a long time, and this is just Dell putting crap components on their machine and blaming others. Any discussion was impossible with them. So let me explain a bit... In this case, VLC just uses the Windows APIs (DirectSound), and sends signed integers of 16bits (s16) to the Windows Kernel. VLC allows amplification of the INPUT above the sound that was decoded…
> But this is exactly the same if you put your mp3 file through Audacity and increase it and play with WMP, or if you put a DirectShow filter that amplifies the volume after your codec output.
Indeed, and doing that destroys audio equipment just as effectively. It's the reason apps like SoundForge, Audacity and others have clip warnings on their level monitors: so users don't create audio data that destroys listeners' equipment.
The problem is VLC gives consumers (who, like you, don't know better) an exceptionally easy way to create clipped audio. Depending on the characteristics of the source, the degree of clipping VLC can create can destroy even pro equipment. If I were an engineer at Dell, I'd recommend denying warranty claims too.
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#163As the main developer of VLC, we know about this story since a long time, and this is just Dell putting crap components on their machine and blaming others. Any discussion was impossible with them. So let me explain a bit... In this case, VLC just uses the Windows APIs (DirectSound), and sends signed integers of 16bits (s16) to the Windows Kernel. VLC allows amplification of the INPUT above the sound that was decoded…
> But this is exactly the same if you put your mp3 file through Audacity and increase it and play with WMP, or if you put a DirectShow filter that amplifies the volume after your codec output. Indeed, and doing that destroys audio equipment just as effectively. It's the reason apps like SoundForge, Audacity and others have clip warnings on their level monitors: so users don't create audio data that destroys listeners…
I thought they warned about clipping because it sounds awful.
There is no excuse, none, nada, zip, zilch, in 2014 for allowing userland software to generate signals powerful enough to damage built-in hardware.
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#164That kind of amplitude abuse is the equivalent of pounding very hard on the keyboard for long periods of time - it will break sooner than it would normally have, and can rightfully be considered abuse. However, voiding the warranty simply because of VLC installed is, again, the equivalent of voiding the keyboard warranty simply because you are a bodybuilder. Ok enough metaphors.
The fact that it's being driven internally is a major difference.
Imagine if this was some crazy keyboard which could actually press keys automatically using a motor. Then imagine if the drivers and hardware allowed you to destroy the keyboard by pushing the motor too hard. This would be obviously crazy and the ability to write userland software that destroys built-in hardware should not result in a denied warranty.
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#165I'm surprised that I can't find any mention of the fact that this behavior is simply illegal, beyond the blatant technical stupidity. The Magnuson-Moss warranty act in the US prohibits voiding a warranty simply due to the use of third-party parts, unless those parts can actually be demonstrated to be the cause of the problem. The mere presence of a part is not enough. They'd have to show that your use of VLC actually caused this failure, and since I doubt they're keeping the sort of logs that can show that, they have no case.
Companies like to talk about "voiding the warranty" for all kinds of stupid stuff, and consumers don't know their rights so they often get away with it, but what the law allows is considerably more constrained.
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But this is exactly the same if you put your mp3 file through Audacity and increase it and play with WMP, or if you put a DirectShow filter that amplifies the volume after your codec output. Indeed, and doing that destroys audio equipment just as effectively. It's the reason apps like SoundForge, Audacity and others have clip warnings on their level monitors: so users don't create audio data that destroys listeners…
I thought they warned about clipping because it sounds awful. There is no excuse, none, nada, zip, zilch, in 2014 for allowing userland software to generate signals powerful enough to damage built-in hardware.
Agreed in principal, however all the ways that could prevent rogue userland software from playing damaging audio (eg. using a limiter of some sort) would either distort or introduce quite a bit of delay to otherwise perfectly safe audio played by responsible software.
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought they warned about clipping because it sounds awful. There is no excuse, none, nada, zip, zilch, in 2014 for allowing userland software to generate signals powerful enough to damage built-in hardware.
Agreed in principal, however all the ways that could prevent rogue userland software from playing damaging audio (eg. using a limiter of some sort) would either distort or introduce quite a bit of delay to otherwise perfectly safe audio played by responsible software.
How would it distort audio played by responsible software? Pick a limit where "100%" doesn't destroy the hardware. Enforce it. No distortion, done.
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#168Wait, people use laptop speakers?
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Analog limiter ICs (that I know of) limit the signal according to input voltage, something that does not catch this issue. Furthermore, limiting power at the audio codec level would require for the codec to have that feature and I don't know of audio codecs with that capability.
Cheap shit. Seriously, cheap shit. There are several ways to solve this, all of which boil down to "use more chips" or "use better speakers", thus increasing the price of already incredibly shitty speakers. Source: I'm involved in designing consumer electronic products and the only corners that don't get cut are those that, if cut, result in certifications not being granted and therefore in products you're unable to…
Why Apple included?
Re: Installing VLC Media Player voids your speaker warranty
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
Audio is generally handed over to the OS via a format called Pulse Code Modulation. This is a series of audio "samples", which in the Windows case are individual signed 16-bit integers. Typically each second of audio is broken into about 44,100 of these integers. Each integer represents the sound amplitude during a particular 1/44,100th of a second, with a large negative number (-32,768) being a small amplitude and a…
While any software that accesses an audio interface using integer formats, VLC is to my knowledge the only average user-oriented program that can end up in such situations. I would suggest VLC disables this feature for new installs and move it to an easily discoverable preference. Or if they really care enough to allow their users to boost the volume levels of quiet movies to replace the gain multiplication with a pr…
> VLC is to my knowledge the only average user-oriented program that can end up in such situations
Windows Media Player, Firefox, iTunes, ...
VLC makes it easier (you can boost a quiet song or movie until it fills the OS-defined dynamic range) but a loud song in any other piece of music playing software would have the same effect. Depending on the genres of music you listen to, it's not uncommon to come across songs that have been boosted until they clip.
As for hiding the option in preferences, volume boosting is one of VLC's key value propositions to laypeople (in my experience). Making it undiscoverable would be a disaster. Maybe add a 1-off warning dialog for users on Dell computers?