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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#161

Post by sliverstorm »

ossreality wrote: post #7

Where do people get off thinking they have the right to touch others, especially repeatedly, unreciprocated? So many of these tech, gender, sex issues would be pre-empted so many times if people simply respected some basic boundaries, were less presumptive and thought about their actions. I'd love to know what that groper would've done if I'd walked in, as a guy, and immediately started hitting on him and touching hi…

I think it's pretty simple; human courting is chock full of nonverbals and hints and read-between-the-lines. You take a guy who understands he's supposed to pick up on these things and be bold, but is quite bad at detecting whether interest is reciprocated, and tadah- you have this blog post.

Supporting evidence that I felt greatly bolstered my theory- Not long ago I went for a kiss with a girl I barely knew. I knew from body language alone she wanted that, and I was right. She later explicitly told me how happy she was that I had been bold, taken control, and made the leap totally out of the blue.

So at least to my figuring, it isn't like these people are fundamentally misguided. It isn't like courtship is supposed to be started with "May I stroke your hair? Ok, now I'm going to kiss you, is that Ok?". They are probably just really bad at navigating these waters.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#162

Post by dictum »

zasz wrote: post #128
runjake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really turned off by these posts, too. I roll my eyes and mutter "Christ, not another one". But I'm a male who doesn't have to worry about being groped and I keep my hands to myself. But let me guess how the reality turns out for her: - She says something about it. - The guy who is misbehaving is probably physically bigger than her. She may feel fearful of speaking up. or - She speaks up and gets called a "prude"…

It's not just about having a young daughter. People need to teach their sons that they shouldn't be putting their hands on women's waists and legs. That is the other reason to write blog posts on this--to make men aware that they shouldn't be doing things like this.

From my observation, most parents teach their sons some euphemism-laden variation of the idea that they shouldn't make unwanted sexual advances—that they should be respectful to women, "treat a lady right" etc.

Even if they didn't it would be irrelevant: when it comes to sex, teenagers and young adults are much more influenced by their friends and by culture at large. A music video has much more influence than mom being bossy again.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#163

Post by silencio »

gnaritas wrote: post #111
silencio wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woman, what I hate is when I'm trying to be nice and proper and educational about telling people to back off and they use that as a springboard to go all "who, me?" or maybe "oh, okay" and then assume I'm a frigid bitch anyway instead of recognizing that they're the ones making a big mistake. So nowadays I am of the shove the offending body part off and "get your hands off me" mindset because it doesn't really m…

> So nowadays I am of the shove the offending body part off and "get your hands off me" mindset because it doesn't really matter. Awesome, as a guy, that's what I think women should do.

I'm privileged. I also have a black belt in taekwondo, studied other martial arts/self defense techniques, and I'm big and fat and subjectively beautiful with a couple thousand Twitter followers ;) I'm part of a bunch of women/diversity-focused communities I can turn to for help too. (Double Union, devchix, Tech LadyMafia, etc. if anyone was curious.)

There will be women that can't do what I'm willing to do for a lot of reasons. People, even. There are people still having problems with what they've done in the past to discourage bad behavior even though they were the victims. There will never be a shortage of that, ever.

So whatever you think someone else should do, don't forget you can help too. Discourage this behavior in everyone, support codes of conduct or implement them in your own groups, and follow said codes of conduct. The community will become a better place for it, not just for women but for everyone in general, and you can't go wrong with that.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#164

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

jellicle wrote: post #78

To the younger folks out there: if you see something like this occur as a third party (you're neither the groper nor the gropee, neither the misogynist nor the victim), you need to not politely ignore it but to step in and correct the asshole, as firmly as necessary. Whether it's groping or just verbal putdowns of some sort, you should step forward and add yourself to the situation, making it clear that the behavior…

Are you suggesting that "younger folks" just start trying to intervene in every public display of affection they see at a meetup?

If I hug my wife the last thing I need is some white knight running up and calling me names because they have some imagining of what is going on.

Honestly that advice on the face of it is terrible. We should discourage this behaviour but it should be through having rules for meetups, a complaints/reporting facility, and banning the offenders (or giving them warnings in less egregious examples).

Recommending people get into a confrontation if they get a bad vibe is just bad advice that will result in bad situations (see dongle-gate, et al).

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#165

Post by gnaritas »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #158
gnaritas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So nowadays I am of the shove the offending body part off and "get your hands off me" mindset because it doesn't really matter. Awesome, as a guy, that's what I think women should do.

Okay, so that's what women should do, then what should men do?

Obviously, not be total jerks like that guy and grope women you don't know. I'm not blaming her at all, don't mean to imply that. He was in the wrong.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#166

Post by gnaritas »

silencio wrote: post #163
gnaritas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So nowadays I am of the shove the offending body part off and "get your hands off me" mindset because it doesn't really matter. Awesome, as a guy, that's what I think women should do.

I'm privileged. I also have a black belt in taekwondo, studied other martial arts/self defense techniques, and I'm big and fat and subjectively beautiful with a couple thousand Twitter followers ;) I'm part of a bunch of women/diversity-focused communities I can turn to for help too. (Double Union, devchix, Tech LadyMafia, etc. if anyone was curious.) There will be women that can't do what I'm willing to do for a lot…

Of course, had I seen such behavior I'd have told the jerk to back off myself and pointed out that she's clearly uncomfortable with your inappropriate behavior. It's a bitcoin meetup, not a singles bar.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#167

Post by BlindRubyCoder »

hbags wrote: post #137
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

Everyone needs to feel like they belong somewhere. They need a cause.

Your cause is hatred of white men and you find solace with others of the same persuasion.

But you're still wrong, and the angry ranting is just ignored by people, even if they agree with some of your points.

FYI.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#168

Post by rgj »

zasz wrote: post #36
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly. So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting ste…

The best response is to say something that makes him feel embarassed. Like "wow. This must be a big day for you. You don't get to touch a woman very often, do you?". Loud enough, of course.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#169

Post by bdr »

rayshan wrote: post #99
guard-of-terra wrote: post #60

Maybe it isn't related to Bitcoin and Tech so much as it is related to, say, USA and SF? Because I can't imagine such stories materialize in other places (of developed word and large parts of developing world either). You just seem to have enough peculiar traits from both gender sides for a perfect storm.

The event was in NYC not SF. SF / SV has its own share of problems but the one being discussed here isn't unique to SF or the U.S. Though I do wonder how the U.S. rank in terms of % of women in STEM majors or STEM careers. Also the issue here has something to do with bitcoin attracting early adopters and groups with certain political preferences. I certainly wouldn't call the bitcoin subculture mainstream yet.

Thanks. FWIW, I haven't seen or heard about anything like this happening at the SF Bitcoin Meetup. If I did, it wouldn't be tolerated. In fact, there's been a woman running the show more often than not, and now one of the main co-organizer is a woman.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#170

Post by hbags »

kordless wrote: post #160
hbags wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

I usually stay away from making blaming statements, but you're an asshat. Merritt didn't criticize anyone - instead they (she?) offered suggestions for a path to conflict resolution. You, on the other hand, are making a slew of blaming statements that are made up bullshit. What you are angry about, I'm unsure. I'll hazard you don't know either. Cognitive dissonance at its finest, folks.

Meritt absolutely made blaming statements. Even the most charitable reading of his post is him complaining that she decided to make clickbait.

He tried to shame her and degrade her for having shared her story instead of doing something else.

He's an asshole. Fuck him.

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