US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale • Hacker News Board

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#161

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:40 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #59

camus2 wrote: post #32

Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. France is a strange country that likes to give lessons about democracy to the rest of the world, but when you look at things closer, France is closer to a monarchy than a democracy. Everything is so centralised that information usually comes from an single source of truth, that journalist dont even bother ques…

> Not surprising, there is no free speech in France. Entirely false, except if you mean ABSOLUTE free speech. In this case I would argue no country has one. I guess you come from the US? See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_excep... > Especially when it comes to crooked banks or politicians. Weren't we talking about the 1% recently where you live? > France is closer to a monarchy than a democr…

> Furthermore, who is upvoting your comment? It's just plain bashing with no real arguments.

Bravo. That's the most beautifully hypocritical internet comment I've seen in quite a while.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#162

Post by Xylakant » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:42 PM UTC

declan wrote: post #103

Xylakant wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "no jurisdiction over someone?" If a crime was committed in france they can ask for extradition. That would probably not result in anything in this case, but as long as it's a crime by french law committed in france the case may as well be valid. So all the court will check whether a punishable crime was committed in france. They could collect the fine when the blogger enters france or maybe, depe…

France has no jurisdiction. U.S. courts will not enforce this civil judgment. Our 1A precludes them from doing so. And the blogger in question said he's not going to France. (BTW, a civil judgment is not "a crime by French law.")

> France has no jurisdiction. U.S. courts will not enforce this civil judgment.

These two things are totally unrelated and I never said the lather would happen.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#163

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

astrobe_ wrote: post #142

mpclark wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of true. I ran a publication there for a few years and there are a lot of lines you cannot cross, lines that don't exist in the UK or the US. One I particularly remember (though I can't quote it exactly) is that you can (could?) be hauled into court for criticising heads of state, domestic or foreign.

Probably a misunderstanding. French press criticize the President 24/7. You can't insult the president or any other official in public, or any other French citizen. Just like in most other European countries, France lets you say what you want, as long as you don't spread lies or hatred.

Insults are not (usually) hatred. It's closer to a rule against being rude, which doesn't seem to me like something that should be enforced by the police.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#164

Post by latj » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

woah wrote: post #66

err4nt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trained in school by French teachers and they spoke of France as though it was the cradle of civilization. Not just democracy came from there, but culture itself!

Well, I'll have to inform you that this was incorrect! I grew up in Vermont, and let me assure you, it is Quebec that is the cradle of civilization!

Is there anyone in the world that could hate a Canadian?

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#165

Post by Xylakant » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

declan wrote: post #104

This judgment is unenforceable in the United States as a matter of public policy (thanks to our First Amendment). So it's merely an attempt by Société Générale to muzzle critics. If Mish were a multinational company with operations in France, it would be different. But he's not. So he can gleefully ignore it, as he is, correctly, doing.

> So he can gleefully ignore it, as he is, correctly, doing.

Ignoring it would mean "never base your action on that decision". However, now he can't travel to France or any of the french territories (Martinique etc.). That's not what I'd call ignoring. It's a shitty situation: Fined for invalid reasons in a trial where you never had a chance to fight.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#166

Post by PhasmaFelis » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:46 PM UTC

Tloewald wrote: post #127

cobrausn wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the United States never does anything outside its jurisdiction that anyone else finds annoying. Except we aren't talking about the US right now, we are talking about one particularly boneheaded action by France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

This is what appears to me to be an American (or USian to be more precise) complaining about France fining a US Blogger, so a direct comparison of the US to France is highly apropos.

Except that Mike Shedlock is not personally America and has no control of the actions of the American government.

Also, there's only one nation in the world called "America," so it's plenty precise. The continents are "North America" and "South America," or jointly "the Americas." Posturing aside, I don't believe that a reasonable person is likely to confuse them.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#167

Post by bmelton » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:48 PM UTC

doe88 wrote: post #158

bmelton wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does one have to be in a free-bordered country to critique another nation's immigration policies? As an American, I disagree with American immigration policies, and also disagree with France's. Is my opinion discounted because I'm an American?

> and also disagree with France's. I would have said the same thing if he was French, to say France has xenophobic views on immigrations is plain wrong. And yes no direspect to you but I don't think you can rightly evaluate the situation in France by reading comments on internet or articles in the news, you have to live here and see by yourself. I would say two things: there is much more immigration than what the num…

> you have to live here and see by yourself

Living somewhere doesn't give you as much insight to a place's immigration policies as attempting to emigrate to that place.

Regardless, it's not imprudent to question the efficacy of broad social benefits while simultaneously supporting open borders.

It is equally okay to believe that your country should benefit from the diversity that can only be achieved with easy immigration laws, and be willing to accept an increase in taxes to support that objective.

It's also okay to view the other position as negative based on your views, and a person's country of origin or current residency does not affect the validity of their opinion.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#168

Post by mullingitover » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:48 PM UTC

baby wrote: post #107

marknutter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I expected more from HN than people using the term "Murica". Also, before complaining about the quality of comments one should give the system time to correct itself as people vote on them. Otherwise you may end up with a highly visible comment that refers to outdated information..

So he should wait until the point where posting a comment would just result in it being buried? Maybe a better solution would have been to reply to those "bad" comments instead of creating one, but it's kind of rare to see so many free bashing in HN that you don't really want them to stay on top for too long.

> So he should wait until the point where posting a comment would just result in it being buried?

When the comments are about other comments on the thread, and not about the linked story, many of us actually prefer that they're buried.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#169

Post by jackmaney » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

epsylon wrote: post #47

The comments here are atrocious. I expected more from HN than senseless French-bashing and 'Murica flag-waving. A few informations for context: - Two bloggers were fined, one French, and the American one for quoting the French. - The fine emanated from the Commission des Sanctions (sanction committee) of the AMF (Autorité des Marchés Financiers), the French stock market regulator. - It's supposed to be independent, b…

For your arrogant comment, I hereby fine you 100 bit coins and a copy of every game on Steam that I don't currently own. Any responses to this comment must be made in German and include an mp3 file of the responder reading aloud the written German in the most stereotypically shrill German accent possible.

Re: US blogger fined 8,000 Euros by France for criticizing Société Générale

#170

Post by Mithaldu » Thu, Nov 21, 2013, 6:57 PM UTC

thekevan wrote: post #75

Mithaldu wrote: post #33

That guy managed to instantly go from slightly above zero respect to negative, when i copy-pasted stuff and noticed that his site saw fit to add spam onto that in the buffer.

So you copied his content and were mad that he included text which noted you copied his content?

To be fair: I am less concerned about the adding of text, but the fact that it also adds a newline.

I copied it with the intent of putting quotes around it and adding the link to the end of it. However as is, i had to copy it into an editor and mangle it there, before posting it in chat.