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Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#161

Post by collyw »

kotakota wrote: post #131
kyledrake wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then slow down and wait until it's safe to pass. What could you possibly be doing that is more important than endangering someone's life? Do you understand that the cyclist has a legal right to be there, and that the reason for that legal right is safety?

The cyclist should pull over and wait until the road is clear or ride in roads with lower speed limits and less traffic. The cyclist is the one impending traffic and therefore should be the one to be inconvenienced. Also the cyclist is the one who endangered their own life by deciding to ride in the street with cars. Even though cyclists have the right to be on the road they are still expected to fallow the traffic l…

I cycle around the city in Barcelona, where the drivers are often arseholes.

In a dense city like Barcelona, the traffic doesn't go so fast, and I can usually keep up with most cars, except when accelerating from lights. That doesn't matter. If a car is behind, me they seem to think they have a right to drive too close and honk their horn at me to tell me to get out of the road, even though they will be stuck behind the car that is 20 meters ahead of me.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#162

Post by collyw »

mikeash wrote: post #159
aaren wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it depends where you live (UK here). I see multiple cars jump multiple different red lights everyday, when the lights are very definitely red. Often the cars accelerate into the lights to get through. I also see bikes jump through lights, but I don't usually find them as objectionable as they are i) going much slower, ii) weigh about 10% of the car, iii) have a massive interest in navigating the junction safely…

When you're talking about accelerating to get through, I take it you're discussing running of red lights quickly after a yellow. While I certainly won't condone this, I also think it's a different class of problem from blatantly running a red light that has been red for a long time. Lights are timed to tolerate some abuse when it comes to trying to squeak through. What I see bicycles do on a regular basis (and what t…

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-cyclists-mos...

According to that article, there is a good chance that running red lights is doing the opposite. Maybe time you changed your assumptions and objections.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#163

Post by collyw »

jackmaney wrote: post #122
dmm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not a cyclist so you judge them differently than you judge cars. Cyclists do get ticketed, even when they are commiting crimes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhWCFi3JIcU

Holy crap, that is the first time I have ever heard of a bicyclist being pulled over and ticketed. Good on the cop that issued that citation!

Here in Barcelona I have heard of more cyclists get ticket than car owners (probably I know a lot more people that ride bikes admittedly). For listening to music while biking amongst other things. I guess they are an easy target for police.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#164

Post by kotakota »

collyw wrote: post #161
kotakota wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cyclist should pull over and wait until the road is clear or ride in roads with lower speed limits and less traffic. The cyclist is the one impending traffic and therefore should be the one to be inconvenienced. Also the cyclist is the one who endangered their own life by deciding to ride in the street with cars. Even though cyclists have the right to be on the road they are still expected to fallow the traffic l…

I cycle around the city in Barcelona, where the drivers are often arseholes. In a dense city like Barcelona, the traffic doesn't go so fast, and I can usually keep up with most cars, except when accelerating from lights. That doesn't matter. If a car is behind, me they seem to think they have a right to drive too close and honk their horn at me to tell me to get out of the road, even though they will be stuck behind…

I understand what your saying. I live in Chicago and things are pretty similar. I'm not saying that all drivers are correct in the way that they act. Many drivers are jerks about it but at the same time many bikers are jerks about the way they ride in traffic. A major reason drivers simply want to get around a cyclist is to avoid having to deal with the chance of hitting them if the swerve suddenly. Is the way they go about It right? Probably not but if you are going to put drivers in a situation where they have to worry about hitting you then its their right to be rude.

You have to realize that if a driver hits another car going 20 mph in city traffic chances are no one will be seriously hurt. Someone will likely get a ticket between $50 and $200 and their insurance goes up. Now when you throw a bike in that accident the rider is likely going to be seriously injured if not killed. No one wants to be in a situation where they have to worry about seriously hurting or killing someone. Most drivers simply want to get around the biker and avoid it but bikers don't make that easy and many of them act like they own the road. You just have to remember as a cyclists that you are the one who chose to put your safety at risk by riding in traffic.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#165

Post by collyw »

jackmaney wrote: post #126
CookWithMe wrote: post #113

For those questioning whether having and enforcing laws that protect cyclists may help: In Germany, drivers are obligated to look back over their shoulder when they make a right-turn to make sure they don't run over a cyclist. This law is being actively taught, checked during the driver test, and enforced. In Poland, a similar law was passed only 2 years ago. Driving a bicycle in Poland is considered more dangerous t…

How about enforcing laws against cyclists that constantly break traffic laws?

Sounds like road envy to me. I know plenty of cyclist that have fines over here.

And read this, as it suggests sticking to the rules may be more dangerous for cyclists.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-cyclists-mos...

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#166

Post by mikeash »

collyw wrote: post #162
mikeash wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're talking about accelerating to get through, I take it you're discussing running of red lights quickly after a yellow. While I certainly won't condone this, I also think it's a different class of problem from blatantly running a red light that has been red for a long time. Lights are timed to tolerate some abuse when it comes to trying to squeak through. What I see bicycles do on a regular basis (and what t…

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-cyclists-mos... According to that article, there is a good chance that running red lights is doing the opposite. Maybe time you changed your assumptions and objections.

That's quite an interesting link, but I'm not sure that conclusion can be applied outside of London as there seem to be a lot of confounding factors involved.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#167

Post by jackmaney »

collyw wrote: post #165
jackmaney wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about enforcing laws against cyclists that constantly break traffic laws?

Sounds like road envy to me. I know plenty of cyclist that have fines over here. And read this, as it suggests sticking to the rules may be more dangerous for cyclists. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/21/women-cyclists-mos...

The rules of the road are the rules of the road and--unless otherwise specified--are to be followed by cyclists and drivers. Period. No exceptions.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#168

Post by imwhimsical »

Lagged2Death wrote: post #4
imwhimsical wrote: post #2

TL;DR — No.

You'd better read it this time maybe.

I stand corrected (and misunderstood).

When I said "No." I meant it's ethically wrong to kill cyclists, and not "O.K". I was merely answering the question posed in the title. I agree my use of "TL;DR" probably made sure everybody took this the wrong way, and was technically out of place, too.

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