It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow • Hacker News Board

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#161

Post by 21echoes » Mon, Nov 11, 2013, 5:18 AM UTC

downer99 wrote: post #128

21echoes wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably because it's a japanese word and the rest are english?

It seems strange that there wouldn't be an English word to describe what MSG tastes like. In general, I think MSG simply tastes salty, even though I understand and agree that it doesn't precisely taste like a salt. MSG doesn't have a flavor unfamiliar to western cuisine. Chicken soup has flavors that fall within the realm of MSG (even without the MSG found in canned soups). Gravies too.

"savory" i think is the english term normally used

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#162

Post by not_clear » Mon, Nov 11, 2013, 8:27 AM UTC

akingoffools wrote: post #150

dsrguru wrote: post #7

This article is both accurate and highly misleading. The author is correct that there is very little reliable evidence that links glutamic acid and/or glutamate to health problems. The backlash against MSG as a result of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" craze, was not rooted in scientific inquiry. However, MSG is not just a source for glutamate like seaweed and tomatoes are. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid a…

Another point worth considering is the chirality of the molecule. There is a strong bias in biological systems in favour of l-oriented amino acids; a bias often unreflected or different in synthesised chemicals. Biological systems often react differently to the different enantiomers of a chemical, sometimes being unresponsive to the enantiomer of a biologically active molecule, sometimes responding in a different but…

When I had first heard about this, it was the only anti-MSG argument that sounded even remotely plausible, but it seems that nowadays commercial MSG is made by bacterial fermentation, which means that they would also have the preference for L-oriented amino acids.

Wikipedia confirms this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Production

The referenced papers on the process (from 1957!) indicates that they were reporting L-glutamate producing bacteria specifically:

    https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jgam1955/3/3/3_3_193/_article

Here is an overall history of MSG production, including chemical synthesis (now obsolete). Even when they were doing this, they screened out the D-glutamate and re-synthesized it to maximize L-glutamate production (might not have been 100% effective, as apparently it involved doing optical screening of the crystals)

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/3/728S.full

Disclaimer - I am Japanese American, so grew up with Ajinomoto MSG, dashi, tomato sauce, parmesan, Doritos, etc. as part of my diet, so am biased toward skepticism on this topic.

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#163

Post by not_clear » Mon, Nov 11, 2013, 3:30 PM UTC

not_clear wrote: post #162

akingoffools wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another point worth considering is the chirality of the molecule. There is a strong bias in biological systems in favour of l-oriented amino acids; a bias often unreflected or different in synthesised chemicals. Biological systems often react differently to the different enantiomers of a chemical, sometimes being unresponsive to the enantiomer of a biologically active molecule, sometimes responding in a different but…

When I had first heard about this, it was the only anti-MSG argument that sounded even remotely plausible, but it seems that nowadays commercial MSG is made by bacterial fermentation, which means that they would also have the preference for L-oriented amino acids. Wikipedia confirms this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Production The referenced papers on the process (from 1957!) indicates that they…

Interesting - the metafilter referenced elsewhere on the thread had a pointer to a paper about D-glutamate vs L-glutamate. Apparently, bacterial fermentation generates a fair amount of D-glutamate, but this is true of "naturally occurring" fermentation (such as in cheese) too.

The abstract claims foods to which MSG is added directly contained lower amounts of D-glutamate than foods where the MSG comes from fermented foods. I wonder why? Maybe due to better optimization / control for L-glutamate production in the bacteria?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/chir.530060410/ab...

Re: It's the Umami – Why the Truth About MSG is So Easy to Swallow

#164

Post by Pitarou » Tue, Nov 12, 2013, 2:57 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #158

Pitarou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for pointing that out. So "synthetic" is the wrong word. Maybe "industrially produced"? Anyway, if it's made by bacteria, that suggests that it's enantiopure, so there goes one of my hypotheses about the cause of the problem. The ones I'm left with are: - it's something else entirely that's making me ill - the naturally-occurring MSG is bound up with other substances in some way that makes it safe for me to co…

Try eating some Roquefort cheese; it's almost nothing but salt, fat, water, and protein, half of which is glutamic acid.

Hard cheese is fine. If MSG is the culprit (and I still think it probably is), it's the industrially produced kind. I don't know why, but I can assure you I'm not making up those headaches.