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Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

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Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#161

Post by stretchwithme »

chongli wrote: post #150
rayiner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man the "money" argument for the drug war is so stupid. Private prisons are a small minority of prisons even today, and were very uncommon in the 1980s and 1990s when the drug war really heated up. Blaming monied interests is a cop out here. They are just the opportunists. Its "just say no!" moms and dads, teachers and school officials, that keep the drug war alive.

It's more than just prison owners. What would happen to the DEA? Hell, huge numbers of local police would be unnecessary without the drug war.

And there wouldn't be any justification for seizing people's property before they are even proven guilty, if ever. Not that it ever was justified.

The Netherlands closed prisons after it decriminalized drugs.

Personally, I think this should be decided at the neighborhood level, like many social issues. If people are ok with it where they live, it should be allowed. If they don't want it around their kids, that should be possible as well.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#162

Post by InclinedPlane »

oh_sigh wrote: post #10

I love how whenever a major world leader comes out against the war on drugs, it is always after they are out of office and generally retired from political life.

It's a welcome message, but Kofi Annan is one of the most corrupt and least credible politicians out there. It's a shame the message isn't coming from someone more respectable.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#163

Post by duncan_bayne »

I'm reminded of a scene from The Assignment, where two characters are arguing at an official function:

- How about "fuck you, pal"?

- I'd believe it, if it was louder.

In other news, I'm a bit sick of public figures coming out against the War on Drugs after their careers are functionally over.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#164

Post by [deleted] »

nostromo wrote: post #142
criley2 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private prisons are a small minority. However, we do pay an ENORMOUS AMOUNT of money to support our INSANE prison population, and a lot of that money does indeed go to private hands through contracting. The money argument is not stupid. It's big business, even in public prisons.

Do you know that you can place emphasis on a word on HN by surrounding it in *?

[deleted]

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#165

Post by MichaelGG »

rodolphoarruda wrote: post #160
MichaelGG wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Debt with a drug dealer ... Dealers don't need money to finance crimes, they do it mostly through terror. So if the people are working for them to pay off a debt, then the dealer paid for the service still. Additionally, someone has to buy weapons to hijack shipments. >If the legal drug is sold for $15, drug dealers would sell the same amount for $10 Going along with fictional numbers, currently they're getting, say…

> ...someone has to buy weapons to hijack shipments Yes, "soldiers" pay off debts by robbing banks and handing over money to dealers, whom in turn buy weapons on the cheap in Paraguay (country) or from corrupt police forces (aka milícias[3]). > Sounds like this is a problem with slums and Brazil's law enforcement capabilities in general than anything else. That's my point. > Legal sales reduce criminal pressure on en…

Sorry to persist - how does it not reduce revenues? If the illegal restricted rate of a certain opiate is $1/mg, but the free-market, competitive rate is $0.10/mg, then the revenues will drop approximately to 1/10th.

In the slums, is Pepsi, alcohol and ibuprofen priced at obscene rates? Why or why not?

Either way, even if it doesn't benefit the poor class (because they're totally fucked either way), it doesn't harm them, and is the right thing to do. So it does seem simple to state: yes, legalize everything.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#166

Post by lukifer »

pstuart wrote: post #6
tokenizer wrote: post #5

IMO the battle is won in stages, and the first step in the legalization of Marijuana at the Federal level. The next step is when we recognize the victims of the War on Drugs, specifically persons who were sent to jail because of Marijuana. You expand the affected to be people who've committed all non-violent crimes, and advocate for reform from that angle. I don't care what the law really has to say regarding Heroin,…

I care what the law has to say regarding heroin. Legalize it, regulate it just like alcohol. Being illegal didn't keep my brother from becoming addicted and dying from it. If it was legal and pure he might have had a chance. But on the other hand, nobody is trying to outlaw tobacco and alcohol, which are the biggest killers of all. Thats what did my mom in. So yes, legalize it and keep it pure. Educate people on prop…

We have an existing infrastructure to handle dangerous drugs: prescriptions.

While I believe that making choices about one's own biology and consciousness is a fundamental right, there are realities of addiction and drug-seeking behavior that can't be ignored. Ensuring that a medical professional is in the loop regarding a user's drug choices (in my perfect world, even for alcohol and cigarettes) could lead to real harm reduction while respecting personal freedom.

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#167

Post by DerpDerpDerp »

stretchwithme wrote: post #161
chongli wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than just prison owners. What would happen to the DEA? Hell, huge numbers of local police would be unnecessary without the drug war.

And there wouldn't be any justification for seizing people's property before they are even proven guilty, if ever. Not that it ever was justified. The Netherlands closed prisons after it decriminalized drugs. Personally, I think this should be decided at the neighborhood level, like many social issues. If people are ok with it where they live, it should be allowed. If they don't want it around their kids, that should…

> If they don't want it around their kids, that should be possible as well.

Restricting other people's rights because "THINK OF MY CHILDREN!" is how we got in to a lot of these messes in the first place.

I mean, what if your daughter got high on the marijuanas and dated a Negro? The shame it would bring on the family!

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#168

Post by Wingman4l7 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #74
rthomas6 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to read more about this. Do you have a source for this?

One random factoid, that's a favorite of mine: the Ku Klux Klan supported the right of women to vote. They did so because women voters supported temperence/prohibition. And those laws allowed them to target the Catholic Irish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#Prohibition

Ken Burns' excellent documentary miniseries Prohibition goes over this more in-depth in its overview of how disparate voting blocs banded together to accomplish the improbable -- passing a Constitutional amendment to ban alcohol.

It's also an eye-opener in revealing the historical origins of the expansion of police powers like wiretapping, and IIRC, overreaches of the Interstate Commerce Clause.

Once you've watched it, it's easy to draw some very damning "learn from history of be doomed to repeat it" parallels between Prohibition and the War on Drugs at a more detailed level than "drug prohibition doesn't work, just look at Prohibition."

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#169

Post by steveklabnik »

rthomas6 wrote: post #68
vkou wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that both drug prohibition and the War on Drugs both started as highly racist policies, it seems to be working as intended.

I'd like to read more about this. Do you have a source for this?

One teeny tiny entry point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_the_War_on_Drugs

Re: Kofi Annan: Stop 'war on drugs'

#170

Post by PeterisP »

harryh wrote: post #91
proksoup wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support the drug war ... for moral reasons? That mother showing pictures of her 4 missing boys in the article this thread is about, I think she would argue the war is immoral. I think the people who think the drug war is moral, would change their mind if they spent more than 30 seconds thinking about it. Baffles my mind, and when pressed in person, even pious blowhards admit there are serious violent death problems w…

If your daughter was routinely going over to a friend's house where the friend's parent was visibly high on a regular basis how would you feel about it?

It's either up to you and your daughter to decide if going over is a good thing; however; it is not an argument that says wether that parent should be put in prison.
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