The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People • Hacker News Board

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#161

Post by binxbolling » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 7:13 PM UTC

hnal943 wrote: post #117

WalterSear wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion, Homosexual Marriage, these are manufactured controversy. They were created so that that poor masses can be convinced to vote for them.

How are they "manufactured controversy?" Do you think that there is a secret universal agreement on these issues? Seems unlikely.

Among the Religious Right in the US, it's very largely manufactured. Meaning: groups of people very deliberately chose two key issues (abortion and gay marriage) and created opposition movements where there weren't any before. A number of authors trace this, but you could try Randall Balmer for starters.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#162

Post by goggles99 » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 7:17 PM UTC

Nate75Sanders wrote: post #111

IanDrake wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Two different things being discussed as one. 1) Everyone should have at least one outfit that is super classy. A cheap solution is a Salvation Army or Goodwill store in a nice part of town. 2) People who live on the dole and buy things they clearly don't need or deserve. Rocking an iPhone 5 while using your food stamp debit card at the grocery store to buy junk food is the typical "Stupid" poor person move m…

Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here. If you wear your super classy outfit to an interview AND you have the iPhone 5 instead of a prepaid Android phone (or worse -- a prepaid non-smartphone), it's going to show that you "belong" and that you're not poor. Some people really do pay attention to what kind of phone you have, particularly for these gateway-straddling jobs that the author talks about in…

>Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here. The iPhone 5 is a great example. The iPhone 3gs or 4 is hardly distinguishable and costs 1/5 the price. You cannot play some high end games with those phones, but that shouldn't prevent one's economic improvement.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#163

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 7:58 PM UTC

DanielStraight wrote: post #67

MattGrommes wrote: post #49

One of the hard parts for me to understand about articles like this is the addition of race into a social calculation that may not have included race. If I see somebody I'm hiring has a clean car (one of the examples in the article), I'm not thinking "Great, a black person acting white by having a clean car, I'm hiring her", I'm thinking "Great, a tidy person with a clean car". I see this a lot. Obviously there are p…

Please understand I am just trying to explain a viewpoint, not necessarily state my personal beliefs. I think the argument is that you won't notice when a white male is tidy. You notice a black person with a clean car because subconsciously you don't expect it. So even a positive thought or comment (a tidy person with a clean car) becomes racial because it would never have come up with a white male. See also: "articu…

[deleted]

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#164

Post by yannyu » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 7:58 PM UTC

DanielStraight wrote: post #67

MattGrommes wrote: post #49

One of the hard parts for me to understand about articles like this is the addition of race into a social calculation that may not have included race. If I see somebody I'm hiring has a clean car (one of the examples in the article), I'm not thinking "Great, a black person acting white by having a clean car, I'm hiring her", I'm thinking "Great, a tidy person with a clean car". I see this a lot. Obviously there are p…

Please understand I am just trying to explain a viewpoint, not necessarily state my personal beliefs. I think the argument is that you won't notice when a white male is tidy. You notice a black person with a clean car because subconsciously you don't expect it. So even a positive thought or comment (a tidy person with a clean car) becomes racial because it would never have come up with a white male. See also: "articu…

Re: the "articulate" thing, I'm sure some of the engineers on YC have heard something along those lines from people before. I've heard people say "you communicate really well", "you're very articulate", or "you're surprisingly outgoing" about pretty mundane activities. Yes, it's a compliment, but in some of those cases the underlying assumption is that "computer" types aren't great at that sort of thing.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#165

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 8:00 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #149

balabaster wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what I most like about Hacker News though? That instead of bitching about the content of the article, we're busy debating the semantics of mathematical definitions that infer the "average" person's impression of society than caring about the content of the article... that's pretty neat :P

What? That was you ! You complained about someone using an ambiguous word to refer to one of its meanings. > Er yeah, averages aren't made by half and half, they're made by dividing the sum by the count. It's quite possible to have 90% of the population be below average if the 10% is significantly above the average. I then replied saying that the parent was correct if he meant a specific type of average, subtly imply…

[deleted]

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#166

Post by balabaster » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 8:01 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #149

balabaster wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what I most like about Hacker News though? That instead of bitching about the content of the article, we're busy debating the semantics of mathematical definitions that infer the "average" person's impression of society than caring about the content of the article... that's pretty neat :P

What? That was you ! You complained about someone using an ambiguous word to refer to one of its meanings. > Er yeah, averages aren't made by half and half, they're made by dividing the sum by the count. It's quite possible to have 90% of the population be below average if the 10% is significantly above the average. I then replied saying that the parent was correct if he meant a specific type of average, subtly imply…

Er... that was just a statement of observation, I wasn't complaining trying to be a dick, merely passing comment :D

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#167

Post by emhart » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 8:02 PM UTC

yannyu wrote: post #159

DanBC wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like wearing suits. I like the tailoring. I like wearing shirts and ties. I'm glad I get the opportunity to do so. I strongly agree that if you like wearing the clobber you feel good doing so, and that helps with confidence, especially in interview situations. There is some antipathy among a few HN readers about people who wear suits, so I guess there's some important cultural differences. > I paid my share of the…

Regarding the rent, since he says "share", it sounds like he had roommates at that time. He probably wasn't stiffing the landlord, but was in fact asking his friend/roommate if he could "pay him back" that portion of rent a couple weeks later once he had his situation together.

That's precisely right, though it was more of a "I know Doug pays the rent for all, then we cut him checks, I'm going to make sure I'm not around the apartment for a few days until I get a paycheck" sort of thing :\

I spent many years having a very difficult time admitting when I needed help and asking for it, instead I would duck and dodge and keep spinning the plates as fast as I could to keep things together.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#168

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 8:02 PM UTC

yannyu wrote: post #159

DanBC wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like wearing suits. I like the tailoring. I like wearing shirts and ties. I'm glad I get the opportunity to do so. I strongly agree that if you like wearing the clobber you feel good doing so, and that helps with confidence, especially in interview situations. There is some antipathy among a few HN readers about people who wear suits, so I guess there's some important cultural differences. > I paid my share of the…

Regarding the rent, since he says "share", it sounds like he had roommates at that time. He probably wasn't stiffing the landlord, but was in fact asking his friend/roommate if he could "pay him back" that portion of rent a couple weeks later once he had his situation together.

[deleted]

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#169

Post by emhart » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 8:07 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #156

emhart wrote: post #73

I cannot speak to the gendered or racial points (white male, here), but during my time in NYC I experienced first hand the escalation of opportunity that tracked with my escalation of signaling clothing and accessories. I was lucky enough to be poached from my job as a movie theater cleaner/attendant by the manager of a 5th Avenue Kenneth Cole. At the time I was struggling and would eventually end up temporarily home…

I like wearing suits. I like the tailoring. I like wearing shirts and ties. I'm glad I get the opportunity to do so. I strongly agree that if you like wearing the clobber you feel good doing so, and that helps with confidence, especially in interview situations. There is some antipathy among a few HN readers about people who wear suits, so I guess there's some important cultural differences. > I paid my share of the…

that's interesting! As the comment that followed yours says - I was sharing payments with roommates, so I was late paying them, rather than the landlord.

That said, I say its interesting because my experience in the states, especially my hears in Massachusetts has been starkly opposite. It is incredibly difficult to evict someone, even for non-payment. That said, I've never missed a rent payment to an actual landlord, so I've never put the system to the test.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#170

Post by gaius » Thu, Oct 31, 2013, 8:09 PM UTC

consultant23522 wrote: post #143

emhart wrote: post #73

I cannot speak to the gendered or racial points (white male, here), but during my time in NYC I experienced first hand the escalation of opportunity that tracked with my escalation of signaling clothing and accessories. I was lucky enough to be poached from my job as a movie theater cleaner/attendant by the manager of a 5th Avenue Kenneth Cole. At the time I was struggling and would eventually end up temporarily home…

I'm also a white male and reading the article I kept thinking "The requirement for speaking and dressing well doesn't have anything to do with your skin color." The old adage about dressing for the job you want is true for everyone. I'm not suggesting that people of various colors, or women, or gays, or whatever other group does not face a greater degree of difficulty in these areas, but if you want to be one of the…

You've hit the nail on the head. This is why I don't get when people say that, for want of a better term, geek culture is hostile to group X, when really, if you want to be or be accepted by "geeks" then it's on you to fit in, same as it would be in any profession with a strong culture. Want to be a lawyer and dress like a slob? Good luck with that. Want to be a tree surgeon but hate heights...?