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I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

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Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#161

Post by cjg »

arrrg wrote: post #140
Tichy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you own a building? Or may I perhaps defecate your web site, for the sake of art?

What are you talking about? I’m talking about definitions and the argument about definitions that’s happening here. Arguing about definitions is foolish, it’s point- and meaningless. Who cares what vandalism is? The important thing is how one views a certain act, not how one defines vandalism. That only clouds the issue. Also, I find people who think there are absolutes when it comes to this issue extremely funny.

I don't think arguing about definitions is pointless, although it often turns out that way.

Take, for example, the classic "if a tree falls in a forest and no-one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?". Resolving this question comes down to seeing that it depends on how sound is defined: pressure waves in the air or a neural state change related to those waves hitting an ear.

Once we see that a words (like "sound") has several definitions it allows us to see the world more clearly. Perhaps we invent new words for the sub-concepts that are generated.

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#163

Post by x7z42zg4y »

Theodores wrote: post #143
x7z42zg4y wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone who in her time did millions in "damage" to the rail network your average writer has decent opsec besides the fact they almost all use burner phones on a day to day basis. they wont take phones with them on missions. last thing you want is your phone to ring when your hiding from the transit police. (what banksy opsec is like IDK ) also stencils are for people that cant actually paint.

> "stencils are for people that cant actually paint." That is a bit like saying that those that use a sewing machine for embroidery cannot sew. Or musicians that use a computer cannot perform live. Or writers that use word processors 'cant' use punctuation. Banksy has a style, technique and message that makes his work his, and highly regarded by untold millions of people. People that do gormless tags (most graffiti '…

so much lol in your reply.

>"Banksy has a style, technique and message that makes his work his, and highly regarded by untold millions of people. People that do gormless tags (most graffiti 'artists') have just the tag."

which started with the tag banksy.. graffiti artists tag bansky included. he also pilfered his "iconic" rat and a fair few of his other stencils.. he amounts to a clever tracer.

> "However, the intelligence level of a tag 'artist' is not that high,"

intelligence is subjective there are different types of intelligence. IMO making sweeping statements about any subset of any population is a sign of social stupidity.

>"'Opsec' is a confabulated word to describe 'trying not to get caught'."

which i hope any LE would also be practicing when they decided to do wholesale wiretapping of a a whole city area in order to catch someone for the obviously heinous crime of graffiti. Which as i pointed out prior would in most cases plainly not work. Fairly basic MOD for vandals of all ilk in regards to photo documentation of "teh act" involves either a third party or returning at a later date to get pics also AFAIK possession of pictures of graffiti isnt a crime.

>"There is a difference between art and craft. So what if you have learned the craft, i.e. how to hold a spray can, it does not make it art. There is more to it than that. You have to find a voice deeper than a tag."

Thanks for the tips ill keep that in mind next time im doing a top to bottom end to end.

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#164

Post by mathattack »

The whole Banksy craze tells me how much of the value in art is things being famous for their own sake. It isn't that it's art (or graffiti) that causes the problem (or value) it's that it's someone famous.

There is a story in NYC about the French embassy finding they had a Michelangelo in the lobby of their building. (It was there when they bought the building) Once they realized what they had (years later) then they had a problem. They couldn't sell, it, and it required security, so ultimately they gave it to a museum.

http://www.thearttribune.com/The-Cupid-attributed-to.html http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/a-statue-for-a-...

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#166

Post by VLM »

Millennium wrote: post #17
iamben wrote: post #7

Mayor Bloomberg's reaction is interesting - I'm curious to know when a person transitions from vandal to artist. I don't think anyone could argue that Banksy hasn't cemented a place in the 'history of art' and the books our children read that cover this period will feature his work. In the UK a lot of people are genuinely gutted when a Banksy gets removed or covered - like something (a gift?) has been removed from th…

> I'm curious to know when a person transitions from vandal to artist. When they start asking for permission before painting other people's stuff.

The curious other part of the story is watching the train wreck of someone transitioning from a real estate owner to an art owner suddenly without any idea what they're doing or any plan.

The article is seeping thru with "I have no idea what it means" and so on. Well, what it means is you are not an art owner-type but are suddenly an art owner anyway, so you'd best sell that shack or otherwise get rid of it or remove it from the owners control before screwing it up, probably permanently and certainly very publicly.

The story wouldn't read any differently had someone tied a cow to her fence and run off. "I'm the accidental owner of a heifer" and "I have no idea what it means". Well, you're not going to figure it out quickly so use the magic of the market to hand it off to someone who does know what to do.

Its a popular, overdone trope, think of all the hollywood sequels along the lines of "three men and a baby".

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#167

Post by rejoinder »

Tichy wrote: post #160
James_Duval wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd have to eat it first, and servers can be crunchy.

Well, it would be for the sake of art. You'd be surprised by the kind of things people do for art.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation_Burn_a_Million_Qui...

Extract: Initially The KLF's earnings were to be distributed by way of a fund for struggling artists managed by the K Foundation, Drummond and Cauty's new post-KLF art project, but, said Drummond, "We realised that struggling artists are meant to struggle, that's the whole point."[12] Instead the duo decided to create art with the money.

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#168

Post by Millennium »

lvs wrote: post #70
Millennium wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious to know when a person transitions from vandal to artist. When they start asking for permission before painting other people's stuff.

That's a bit stuffy. I'd be honored to have Banksy paint my stuff without permission.

I'd probably say yes myself, but I would really, really rather be asked first. That's just basic respect for one's fellow human beings.

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#169

Post by gohrt »

nikatwork wrote: post #79
harlanlewis wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all graffiti artists practice on buildings. Plywood is cheap. Of course, tagging in public, perhaps in a hard to reach place, is a separate skill requiring its own practice... I'd just prefer they did it after having practiced the tag in their backyard first. Like Banksy.

Part of the skill in getting up, is getting up without getting caught. If you support full pieces, you shouldn't complain too much about people practicing with tags (although most people do complain). The solution is of course to have legal walls. But that would be far too progressive for most councils.

Getting up doesn't require tagging.

Tagging doesn't require permanent paint.

Legal walls don't satisfy the goal of getting somewhere challenging.

Re: I’m the Accidental Owner of a Banksy

#170

Post by michaelwww »

lmm wrote: post #137
michaelwww wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your language exhibits a bias that says: a) Banksy is a culture hacker b) Banksy is outside mainstream culture c) Banksy is a successful hacker. All of that is arguable, but one thing we can say for sure is Banksy is interesting because people are interested in Banksy - famous for being famous like Paris Hilton.

So was Paris Hilton a successful culture hacker? I'd be very interested in an article on her strategy, assuming it consisted of more than just being in the right place at the right time - or even a piece like this one, on someone who was influenced by contact with her fame.

The porn tape that gets "accidentally" released is the perfect example of something that appears outside the mainstream but actually very mainstream. Guerrilla marketing is culture hacking? I don't think so. It's advertising. Watch the second film mentioned here called "Bomb It." It's clear what everyone thinks about putting the art in galleries and selling it for big money. The power is lost and it become sterile out of context. Banksy leaves me feeling empty, like Paris Hilton. There's no there there.
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