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E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

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Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#161

Post by PaulHoule »

Anechoic wrote: post #85
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations. This question was answered for me by a Maryland DOT person a few back during a tour of one of their operations center. The upshot is that the intended purpose of EZ-pass and other toll systems are for improved traffic flow, there is a lot of DOT involvement and the DOT wants to encourage folks to use them. If those toll systems were to be used f…

It isn't possible to give automated speeding tickets in New York at this time because our law requires that a ticket be given to a driver instead of a vehicle.

It's different in California, Arizona and many other states -- in those states red light and speed cameras are legal. There is talk of changing the law in NY because some municipalities want more money, but us New Yorkers see what goes on in other states and we don't like it.

It NY you need to be given a ticket by a police officer who observed you speeding, because otherwise you don't have a positive ID on the driver. EZ-Pass identifies the car, but they couldn't decide if it were me, my wife or somebody else driving.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#162

Post by bri3d »

PaulHoule wrote: post #161
Anechoic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations. This question was answered for me by a Maryland DOT person a few back during a tour of one of their operations center. The upshot is that the intended purpose of EZ-pass and other toll systems are for improved traffic flow, there is a lot of DOT involvement and the DOT wants to encourage folks to use them. If those toll systems were to be used f…

It isn't possible to give automated speeding tickets in New York at this time because our law requires that a ticket be given to a driver instead of a vehicle. It's different in California, Arizona and many other states -- in those states red light and speed cameras are legal. There is talk of changing the law in NY because some municipalities want more money, but us New Yorkers see what goes on in other states and w…

In many states this is circumvented by taking a picture of the driver.

Here in CO you receive a nice piece of mail asking if the pictured driver was you. The process to contest the driver's identity is very straightforward, presumably to reduce the inevitable enormous load on the court system.

The obvious loophole is that if someone who isn't the registered owner drives the car, they can speed and run lights with as much impunity as they could pre-cameras. Especially if the other driver is named on the insurance, there's nothing illegal about loaning your car to someone else long-term.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#164

Post by diminoten »

alexqgb wrote: post #156
diminoten wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1984 is a work of fiction and has no bearable application on the world of today, and furthermore there is no philosophical literature dealing with being monitored while in PUBLIC. This isn't about privacy when you're in a place no one else is, this is about how incredibly naive it is to think when you're in public, no one's allowed to look at you. Do not transform this into a privacy debate, because I'm not saying yo…

"this is about how incredibly naive it is to think when you're in public, no one's allowed to look at you." That is...not even remotely close to what I, or anyone else on this thread has said. This was about the malign effects relentless surveillance and stalking, not people glancing in your direction as you walk down the street. And you can't possibly be serious when you say "there is no philosophical literature dea…

> That is just so unbelievably wrong.

This is easy to prove. Show me which philosopher tackled mass public surveillance.

And it is exactly what you and everyone else in this thread has said. A surveillance program designed to collect information on you that's already public is not legally or morally wrong. Besides, you already agreed to it! When you GET a license plate, you're EXPLICITLY agreeing that you can be tracked. That's the whole damned point of the license plate.

You don't have a right to privacy while in public, and that extends to recording your movements in public. Get over it, because that's how it will be forever.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#165

Post by alexqgb »

diminoten wrote: post #164
alexqgb wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is about how incredibly naive it is to think when you're in public, no one's allowed to look at you." That is...not even remotely close to what I, or anyone else on this thread has said. This was about the malign effects relentless surveillance and stalking, not people glancing in your direction as you walk down the street. And you can't possibly be serious when you say "there is no philosophical literature dea…

> That is just so unbelievably wrong. This is easy to prove. Show me which philosopher tackled mass public surveillance. And it is exactly what you and everyone else in this thread has said. A surveillance program designed to collect information on you that's already public is not legally or morally wrong. Besides, you already agreed to it! When you GET a license plate, you're EXPLICITLY agreeing that you can be trac…

I have no interest in "proving" anything to anyone brainless enough enough to make sweeping assertions that categorically deny the very existence of something - without even spending the 30-40 seconds on Google needed to verify the truth of what he's saying. I mean, that's some weapons-grade stupidity right there.

But if you're truly interested in the subject, and are willing to do a very very small amount of work to educate yourself, you can try to guess who I'm thinking of. I'll let you know if you get it right. Bonus points for identifying one key concept this person popularized. It's one that routinely comes up in the conversations about surveillance and social control that are happening all over the place these days, so unless your ignorance is absolute, you should recognize it when you see it.

Good luck, Sport.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#166

Post by diminoten »

alexqgb wrote: post #165
diminoten wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is just so unbelievably wrong. This is easy to prove. Show me which philosopher tackled mass public surveillance. And it is exactly what you and everyone else in this thread has said. A surveillance program designed to collect information on you that's already public is not legally or morally wrong. Besides, you already agreed to it! When you GET a license plate, you're EXPLICITLY agreeing that you can be trac…

I have no interest in "proving" anything to anyone brainless enough enough to make sweeping assertions that categorically deny the very existence of something - without even spending the 30-40 seconds on Google needed to verify the truth of what he's saying. I mean, that's some weapons-grade stupidity right there. But if you're truly interested in the subject, and are willing to do a very very small amount of work to…

I'm 98% certain you're confusing this conversation with a conversation about privacy in general.

It's kind of sad you can't separate the two.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#167

Post by 001sky »

Anechoic wrote: post #85
forgotAgain wrote: post #37

I have to disagree with those who say this isn't news. It was news to me and will, I believe, be news to most others as well. The only time before this that I heard about using EZ pass for anything other than tolls was a few years ago when I read about some feasibility work on the concept of traffic flow optimization being done around Ithaca, NY. I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations…

I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations. This question was answered for me by a Maryland DOT person a few back during a tour of one of their operations center. The upshot is that the intended purpose of EZ-pass and other toll systems are for improved traffic flow, there is a lot of DOT involvement and the DOT wants to encourage folks to use them. If those toll systems were to be used f…

One issue is you can put the thing in a lead box or whatever until you need it for a toll. there is no requirement that it be available. so its easily thwarted as an enforcement mechanism. one could also envision equal protection lawsuits or what not related to this as well.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#168

Post by alexqgb »

diminoten wrote: post #166
alexqgb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no interest in "proving" anything to anyone brainless enough enough to make sweeping assertions that categorically deny the very existence of something - without even spending the 30-40 seconds on Google needed to verify the truth of what he's saying. I mean, that's some weapons-grade stupidity right there. But if you're truly interested in the subject, and are willing to do a very very small amount of work to…

I'm 98% certain you're confusing this conversation with a conversation about privacy in general. It's kind of sad you can't separate the two.

What I can can see is that you're an relentlessly dishonest person with no real interest in learning more about the world, making further conversation pointless.

Specifically, I've noticed that each time the error of what you've written is pointed out, you become evasive, cherry picking one part of the criticism for further distortion while ignoring the bits you can't respond to, or simply moving goal posts when that's more convenient. At no point have you taken responsibility for your statements, or acknowledged the faults in what you've said, even when they've been made plain for all to see. Given your low karma on this site, I suspect I'm not the only one who objects to your basic intellectual dishonesty.

Indeed, Harry Frankfurt has written an excellent essay about people like you. It's called "On Bullshit" and you can read it, in full, here:

https://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/frankfurt...

His central point is that liars, while obviously dishonest, still maintain respect for the basic authority of the truth, if for no other reason than to do a better job concealing it. The bullshitter, on the other hand, has no regard for the quality of what he says, of even the accepted meaning of the words he uses. His only concern is personal advantage, truth be damned. For this reason, Frankfurt concludes that the bullshitter is a greater enemy of the truth than the liar.

Goodbye.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#169

Post by jrockway »

nitrogen wrote: post #155
jrockway wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a good isolation amplifier between your antenna and local oscillator, you don't necessarily transmit much on the frequency you're listening to. (If you did, you'd interfere with other listeners.) Where you transmit also depends very much on the design of the radio you're using; it might be obvious to detect that a radio is being operated, but not detect what frequency it is tuned to. And to be very pedantic, eve…

Don't most receivers use a standardized intermediate frequency, though, resulting in leakage that always leads back to the original frequency?

Yes, most radios use standardized IFs.

But some high-end SDRs use ridiculously-high sampling rates (like 200MHz), in which case many applications don't even need to mix a local oscillator with the incoming RF. It's pretty amazing.

Re: E-ZPasses Get Read All Over New York (Not Just At Toll Booths)

#170

Post by mkopinsky »

PaulHoule wrote: post #161
Anechoic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder why they haven't been used yet to track speeding violations. This question was answered for me by a Maryland DOT person a few back during a tour of one of their operations center. The upshot is that the intended purpose of EZ-pass and other toll systems are for improved traffic flow, there is a lot of DOT involvement and the DOT wants to encourage folks to use them. If those toll systems were to be used f…

It isn't possible to give automated speeding tickets in New York at this time because our law requires that a ticket be given to a driver instead of a vehicle. It's different in California, Arizona and many other states -- in those states red light and speed cameras are legal. There is talk of changing the law in NY because some municipalities want more money, but us New Yorkers see what goes on in other states and w…

In NYC at least, they do give red light tickets by camera/mail. I think it is like a parking ticket in that the responsibility is to the owner of the car. I assume it carries no points as well for that reason.
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