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Don't reinvent the scrollbar

bbrks.me

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Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#161

Post by TheZenPsycho »

x0054 wrote: post #154
TheZenPsycho wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does autohiding the scrollbars add to your life? How does it improve it? You avoid this question. You have no answer. On the other hand, the presence of this option causes confusion and frustration, and, one could argue, significant economic harm as a result of the confusion and frustration. Why is your preference (which you have not, and possibly cannot explain) more important than the confusion and frustration…

I think you have a strong preference in this case, and you wish to force your preference upon people in the name of the "common good." I'll let you figure out the definition of that behavior all on your own. Instead of arguing about your clear authoritarian tendencies, here is my main reasons why I think hiding scroll bars is a good idea: 1. Information Overload: You should only show user information when they need i…

I forgive you for being confused and missing this earlier comment... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6247596

it's just, that you were supposed to scroll to actually read it. There was no way you could have known, since you're on a mac.

I would like to add that your use of the word "fascist" and "authoritarian" is a grave disrespect to those who are survivors of authoritarian regimes. If I were you I would think much more carefully before throwing such words around over scrollbar preferences

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#162

Post by TheZenPsycho »

sbuk wrote: post #139
TheZenPsycho wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You prefer your car headlights off at night. I prefer them on. Completely preference, right? You missed my point. Just invoking the word "preference" is a weak argument. You need something more like an actual argument. With evidence and logic.

And reverting to reductio ad absurdum in an attempt to prove a logically weak position is better? Your closing works both ways. Your logic as far as I can see has basically been, to paraphrase; 'it annoys me'. All recent (less than 3 years) Apple devices are sold either as touch devices or with touch enabled peripherals. Gestural interaction is the default paradigm of interaction on iOS/OS X (this is also true of And…

The logic, my friend, is that the result of hiding the scrollbars, is this

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6247596

though, if you are on a mac, I can understand if you missed that whole post.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#164

Post by mbell »

andrewvc wrote: post #103
mbell wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part I agree, I like what OSX does. However, there are edge cases which are infuriating. Have you tried to scroll through an HTML in Chrome on OSX? The only word I can use to describe the experience is 'rage'.

True, but select multiple is horrible. It's easy to code but my god is it unusable.

No argument here, it sucks and I would never design something that way, but phpmyadmin uses it in several places which is where I run into it.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#165

Post by x0054 »

TheZenPsycho wrote: post #161
x0054 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a strong preference in this case, and you wish to force your preference upon people in the name of the "common good." I'll let you figure out the definition of that behavior all on your own. Instead of arguing about your clear authoritarian tendencies, here is my main reasons why I think hiding scroll bars is a good idea: 1. Information Overload: You should only show user information when they need i…

I forgive you for being confused and missing this earlier comment... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6247596 it's just, that you were supposed to scroll to actually read it. There was no way you could have known, since you're on a mac. I would like to add that your use of the word "fascist" and "authoritarian" is a grave disrespect to those who are survivors of authoritarian regimes. If I were you I would think…

You are right, having lived the first 16 years of my life in USSR, I probably know nothing about totalitarian regimes.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#166

Post by TheZenPsycho »

x0054 wrote: post #165
TheZenPsycho wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgive you for being confused and missing this earlier comment... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6247596 it's just, that you were supposed to scroll to actually read it. There was no way you could have known, since you're on a mac. I would like to add that your use of the word "fascist" and "authoritarian" is a grave disrespect to those who are survivors of authoritarian regimes. If I were you I would think…

You are right, having lived the first 16 years of my life in USSR, I probably know nothing about totalitarian regimes.

and you still think a scrollbar preference is worth calling "authoritarian"? odd. Maybe the soviet union wasn't as bad as everyone says, if that is the standard to judge by.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#167

Post by sbuk »

TheZenPsycho wrote: post #162
sbuk wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And reverting to reductio ad absurdum in an attempt to prove a logically weak position is better? Your closing works both ways. Your logic as far as I can see has basically been, to paraphrase; 'it annoys me'. All recent (less than 3 years) Apple devices are sold either as touch devices or with touch enabled peripherals. Gestural interaction is the default paradigm of interaction on iOS/OS X (this is also true of And…

The logic, my friend, is that the result of hiding the scrollbars, is this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6247596 though, if you are on a mac, I can understand if you missed that whole post.

No, I read it easily; I simply used the trackpad to scroll. I disregarded it to because the premise is flawed, as has been pointed out to you. You don't have to agree with everyone else, but in real world use, with real world people, this is considerably less of an issue that you are making it to be.

Watch a child use touch-based interface. It's enlightening. They intuit the required interaction with consummate ease. Having observed how individuals still use scroll bars by tapping on the arrows and not realising that it's quicker to grab the bar, to me illustrates that using and relying on scroll bars is as much a learned behaviour, and a less intuitive one at that.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#168

Post by emn13 »

rdsubhas wrote: post #118
mbell wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part I agree, I like what OSX does. However, there are edge cases which are infuriating. Have you tried to scroll through an HTML in Chrome on OSX? The only word I can use to describe the experience is 'rage'.

sucks wherever it goes. and when the designer makes it smaller in height, it sucks ten times more.

Right, but that's largely the fault of the browser, not the OS or the concept. Knowing that it's not the smartest choice for a webdesigner, but it's essentially equivalent to a bunch of checkboxes with labels.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#169

Post by x0054 »

TheZenPsycho wrote: post #166
x0054 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, having lived the first 16 years of my life in USSR, I probably know nothing about totalitarian regimes.

and you still think a scrollbar preference is worth calling "authoritarian"? odd. Maybe the soviet union wasn't as bad as everyone says, if that is the standard to judge by.

You have an authoritarian attitude. You have a particular opinion about how scrollbars should be, and you would gladly force your opinion upon me, if you could. Now, sure, that's a trivial matter. But I have a problem with the attitude. In any case, I am glad that, at least for now, I am entitled to my opinion, and and you are to yours, and I think that's great.

Re: Don't reinvent the scrollbar

#170

Post by TheZenPsycho »

Someone wrote: post #130
TheZenPsycho wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle I agree with you. In this case apple's decision causes actual problems with content. Putting stuff in a scrollable iframe, or overflow scroll pane now involves carefully instructing people on how to scroll it. Or you force your own custom scrollbars. Or just not have scrollable panes-- you could argue that is a good thing, but sometimes they are unavoidable. Like, for instance, here on HN if someone happ…

Minor correction: on an iPad, you can also scroll that text with one finger.

That is new. Apple has seen the light, finally.
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