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Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

m.guardian.co.uk

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Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#161

Post by anigbrowl »

chc wrote: post #146
tokenadult wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martin Luther King, Jr. took a greater risk than that. So did the several freedom fighters in Taiwan I know personally, some of whom did hard prison time for leading peaceful public protests before Taiwan democratized. It takes people with a lot of courage to change tough situations.

I am well aware of all that, and I have great respect for those people who made those sacrifices, but it doesn't make sense to require that. The idea you're promoting here is "If you won't volunteer to have your life completely ruined, don't do the right thing. I'd rather you just be complicit in something that harms me if you aren't willing to be punished for doing the right thing." Do you not see how completely bon…

You're really assuming your conclusion here. William Binney did not go to prison at all; Thomas Drake got a month's probation. Now I'm not saying that they were free to make their revelations, or that it was easy; they went through a great deal of stress, legal expense, and obviously their public service careers are permanently over. But that's still a very long way from 'having your life completely ruined.'

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#162

Post by anigbrowl »

inzax wrote: post #35
eli wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he comes off as naive and more than a little pompous, but I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. Either way, if he really wants the focus back on the documents, he should probably write fewer letters about his beliefs, his security, and his personal situation.

I totally disagree on slowing down his writing. think about the federalist papers for a second. Someone needed to wrote them to convince a nation about our beloved constitution. Since all eyes are on Snowden, he has the best ability to sway many minds about what he believes and what I believe to be right.

I'm rereading the Federalist Papers right now, as it happens. I can't help thinking that most of HN would dismiss Hamilton and Madison as 'statist thugs' if I were to start quoting or paraphrasing the views of those gentlemen on topics like national security.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#163

Post by lifeformed »

phaus wrote: post #95
lifeformed wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The training is right here: 1) Write some software that destroys your data if you don't login every x hours. 2) Under duress, stall for x hours.

If they abduct and torture you immediately, the chances of you stalling for x hours is pretty much non-existent. Snowden is in Russia. Arguably, no nation on the planet is better at torturing people than they are, and unlike the U.S. Russia doesn't really give a shit if the rest of the world doesn't like their methods. His interrogation would likely take minutes, not hours.

Well, my point is that there are alternate ways of ensuring the data doesn't get out, not just by being really good at resisting torture.

Other methods:

A) Alternate password that destroys the data.

B) Cyanide capsule in tooth.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#164

Post by anigbrowl »

ensignavenger wrote: post #124
bobo1357 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's okay to pick and choose which texts to follow from our Constitution? The Constitution doesn't give Snowden the power to interpret it. It does however give that duty to our federal courts. Should we just ignore that part in our Constitution?

Where does the Constitution give sole authority for interpreting it to the Supreme Court? In fact, it does not even give that authority to the Supreme Court. Judicial review was not established directly in the COnstitution.

Article III section 2:

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution...

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#165

Post by chc »

anigbrowl wrote: post #161
chc wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am well aware of all that, and I have great respect for those people who made those sacrifices, but it doesn't make sense to require that. The idea you're promoting here is "If you won't volunteer to have your life completely ruined, don't do the right thing. I'd rather you just be complicit in something that harms me if you aren't willing to be punished for doing the right thing." Do you not see how completely bon…

You're really assuming your conclusion here. William Binney did not go to prison at all; Thomas Drake got a month's probation. Now I'm not saying that they were free to make their revelations, or that it was easy; they went through a great deal of stress, legal expense, and obviously their public service careers are permanently over. But that's still a very long way from 'having your life completely ruined.'

Not exactly. I'm assuming that Snowden doesn't believe what he did will hold up in courts. Do you really feel that is an unfair assumption?

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#166

Post by anigbrowl »

betterunix wrote: post #134
bobo1357 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're free to express what you want out of the Constitution but you're not free to break laws as interpreted by our federal courts. Unless the Constitution is amended, shouldn't we be following the rule of law and let the Court interpret the Constitution?

The problem with that approach is that it allows unjust laws to persist indefinitely. Every so often someone needs to stand up and refuse to play by the rules to ensure that unjust laws are repealed. Look at the situation Snowden faced. You have a system that widely violates basic privacy rights, based on a secret interpretation of the law, approved by a secret court that only hears the executive branch's arguments a…

widely disapproved of by the general public

[citation needed]

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#167

Post by anigbrowl »

wavefunction wrote: post #119
ambientwhsiper wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No worries, SP-117 is extremely effective. FSB or any other intelligence service have ways to make people talk. Such naïveté.

You're ignoring that he can't reveal what he doesn't know.

You're ignoring the fact that what he does know would still have a great deal of value to some other intelligence services. Even if he can't give up a password, he still has years of first-hand experience, knowledge of specific programs whose documentation he chose to copy etc.

In other words, just because he doesn't have the key to the box doesn't mean he has forgotten everything about the contents, especially considering that he packed it.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#168

Post by ianterrell »

MikeCapone wrote: post #143

Sometimes I wonder if the intelligence community doesn't have people who's sole job is to write comments on websites/forums to help shape public opinion. It would be something fairly trivial for them to do and help further their interests...

Well, the Air Force has already been caught doing it. Why wouldn't everyone else?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ord...

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#169

Post by HNaTTY »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #148
wavefunction wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ignoring that he can't reveal what he doesn't know.

he either have control over the information or he doesn't. In the case of the former, it means by transitive closure that Putin would have the control as well. It makes me wonder though who got the best deal - Chinese or Russians - i suppose each party was thinking that they are playing off the other.

By saying that torture wouldn't reveal the information, he's saying that he doesn't have control over the information.

Re: Email exchange between Edward Snowden and former GOP Senator Gordon Humphrey

#170

Post by anigbrowl »

chc wrote: post #165
anigbrowl wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really assuming your conclusion here. William Binney did not go to prison at all; Thomas Drake got a month's probation. Now I'm not saying that they were free to make their revelations, or that it was easy; they went through a great deal of stress, legal expense, and obviously their public service careers are permanently over. But that's still a very long way from 'having your life completely ruined.'

Not exactly. I'm assuming that Snowden doesn't believe what he did will hold up in courts. Do you really feel that is an unfair assumption?

Not at all, but the courts might only impose a nominal penalty, such as the single month of probation to which they sentenced Drake. Why don't you address my point, instead of relying on the implicit assumption that facing the music would necessarily involve the government locking him up and throwing away the key?
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