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How Google is Killing Organic Search

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Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#161

Post by helloworld99 »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #116
AJ007 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am happy to see other people finally pointing this one out. I will refine your hypothesis a little. a) It isn't companies with the highest margin who win, but the ones which are able and willing to devote the greatest percentage of revenue to performance driven advertising. If the company has a slim margin to begin with, they will never even be able to start in the "race." b) Education is a better example than car…

It is worth pointing out that Google is internally very aware of this situation. They have attempted to do what is best for users on several high value searches such as "Mortgage Refinance". At one point they had a fixed fee comparison widget, that would actually suggest banks with the lowest rates. Unfortunately all these attempts were killed, because it is so much more valuable to sell an ad to a shady comparison s…

Google is in crisis because they need 2-3 times more ads than before to keep earnings growth. At some point everything will be ads, even page 2.

Also many users do not know they are seeing ads, imagine if FTC cracked down on shady labeling? People do not like seeing that many ads and Google's revenue and reputation would go down the drain.

>> It takes crazy logic to see good Google search results consistently everyday, and then not trust Google's results for a high value query.

Why, maybe Google manipulates only the high earning keywords? There is no money on "Snowden leaks"

Business owners should band and push another search engine. Google has some guy name Mat Cutts offering "do this and that and your ranking will improve from [update a-z]" but apparently these are lies by Google, Google is actively taking away traffic to send it to ads. Some site that paid $50 for a click, will have to get that money back, and you, the user, will pay for it.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#162

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tomkarlo wrote: post #155
pitchups wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Imagine how funny I thought it was when they guessed my next expiry and just used that, continuing the subscription. They are not guessing the expiry date - I believe it is a service provided by some credit card companies, possibly to large merchants. It happened to me for several years with my Yahoo Email account - that would renew for $20 / year even though my card expired twice during that time. It stopped afte…

It's relatively easy to update the expiry date, since the month doesn't usually change. You just add two years, try the charge, and if it doesn't go through, wait a day and try it again with the next year. This is pretty standard for services with a recurring subscription model, and they don't really need to pay an outside provider for that info (although it would be trivial for any credit agency to provide.) That sa…

Isn't that fraud though.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#163

Post by tomkarlo »

corresation wrote: post #160
tomkarlo wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relatively easy to update the expiry date, since the month doesn't usually change. You just add two years, try the charge, and if it doesn't go through, wait a day and try it again with the next year. This is pretty standard for services with a recurring subscription model, and they don't really need to pay an outside provider for that info (although it would be trivial for any credit agency to provide.) That sa…

That said, I'm not sure he can complain that a recurring subscription continued to, well, recur. Yes, I will complain. Intrinsic in the notion that I'm not bothering to update billing information after numerous updates telling me that it will cancel if I don't is the conclusion that the service, and billings, will cease. Credit cards have expiry dates for a reason, and ultimately it is fraud that they effectively man…

I'd check the wording of those updates. It's usually that your service may be interrupted if you fail to update your credit card when it expires. And usually, the terms of the site say that you're on the hook for the recurring charge even if your card fails to clear.

You're hoping that the natural expiration cycle of your physical card - not the account - will impact a transaction that doesn't actually involve that physical implement. I can see where you're coming from, but I don't know that you really have a right to expect the expiration of your physical card to impact an existing business relationship with a third party that involves recurring charges (that you have likely agreed to pay regardless of your card's validity, or credit limit.)

I've worked on these kinds of renewal systems for large sites and generally, users don't mind them because the reverse case - where 4% of the users lose access each month because their physical card expired - sucks for both the site and the end users who don't expect access to be cut off.

If you want to use credit card changes as a shortcut for properly cancelling your subscription, you probably need to actually change the card number.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#165

Post by nostraspamus »

To reduce the amount of useless clutter that Google displays in search results, try verbatim mode.

You can turn on verbatim mode on the search results page. Click on the Search Tools menu, then look in the All Results menu for the Verbatim option.

The verbatim option tells Google to use all your search terms, as-is, and (at least at present) the search results are much less cluttered.

To always use verbatim mode, remove the search terms from the URL in the address bar (leaving intact the other parameters that turn on verbatim mode) and create a bookmark.

Don't tell Google about this feature... I depend on it!

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#166

Post by tomkarlo »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #162
tomkarlo wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's relatively easy to update the expiry date, since the month doesn't usually change. You just add two years, try the charge, and if it doesn't go through, wait a day and try it again with the next year. This is pretty standard for services with a recurring subscription model, and they don't really need to pay an outside provider for that info (although it would be trivial for any credit agency to provide.) That sa…

Isn't that fraud though.

I'm not a lawyer (nor an expert on payments) but generally it doesn't seem to have any element of fraud - it's collecting payment for services fairly rendered via the credit card account provided by the customer. Fraud would involve some kind of intentional deception.

If their was fraud, you could get a chargeback, and I don't see that happening very often.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#167

Post by SteveGerencser »

helloworld99 wrote: post #161
jcampbell1 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worth pointing out that Google is internally very aware of this situation. They have attempted to do what is best for users on several high value searches such as "Mortgage Refinance". At one point they had a fixed fee comparison widget, that would actually suggest banks with the lowest rates. Unfortunately all these attempts were killed, because it is so much more valuable to sell an ad to a shady comparison s…

Google is in crisis because they need 2-3 times more ads than before to keep earnings growth. At some point everything will be ads, even page 2. Also many users do not know they are seeing ads, imagine if FTC cracked down on shady labeling? People do not like seeing that many ads and Google's revenue and reputation would go down the drain. >> It takes crazy logic to see good Google search results consistently everyda…

They are cracking down. Just a week or two ago a new statement from the FTC came out with new ad guidelines specifficly targeting search engines.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2013/06/searchengine.shtm

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#168

Post by corresation »

tomkarlo wrote: post #166
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that fraud though.

I'm not a lawyer (nor an expert on payments) but generally it doesn't seem to have any element of fraud - it's collecting payment for services fairly rendered via the credit card account provided by the customer. Fraud would involve some kind of intentional deception. If their was fraud, you could get a chargeback, and I don't see that happening very often.

An important point is that it isn't for services rendered -- it's for services to be rendered in the future on receipt of payment. At the point of billing I owed them $0, and had received no service from them. A credit card number is the compound of the number and expiry day, and they essentially fabricated a new expiry date.

There are whole industries built around billing people for services they don't actually want, and this is just an example of it. I completely understand that it is normal across the industry, but it is incredibly scummy and puts deception and evasion ahead of providing actual value.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#169

Post by Alex3917 »

mkopinsky wrote: post #147
Alex3917 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"many [for-profit colleges] spend more on acquiring a single enrollment than on educating them." According to the DoE, 4-year for-profit colleges spend 2.9x more on administrative expenses (albeit including student services and academic support) than instruction. Unfortunately I can't find a better breakdown of this category, but I'd assume this is mostly leadgen.

Do you have a comparable number for non-profit colleges? While I doubt it's 2.9, I'm sure it's still high.

Non-profit 4-year colleges actually spend more on instruction than on those other categories, by 1.1x.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#170

Post by kenster07 »

I disagree with the premise. "Organic" search will not exist, barring a radically new business model. Any search engine with the resources to produce good search results must carry auction-based advertising in order to fund the quality of their results.

Good luck finding that business model, and being able to reap the profits from it.

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