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US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

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Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#161
If you are interested in looking into this more, I highly recommend the documentary which is coming out called terms and conditions may apply. It explores how companies are giving this information to the govt willingly + it is stated in their terms and conditions.

This is the trailer: https://vimeo.com/57182041

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny thing though... if Fox goes after Obama over this, it's tacitly admitting that Bush was evil too. I doubt they'll do that.

That's suggesting that they have even the slightest compulsion to not be hypocritical. I'd expect them to hit him hard on this (and good for them, even if their reasons for doing so might be dishonest).

I hope you're right. FWIW, if they plan to cover this, they are biding their time. I just spent an hour watching Fox News, and saw: A car run into a Taco Bell, a sea-lion get onboard a boat, Holder testifying before congress about leak investigations and prosecuting journalists, and some other random crap... and not one word about PRISM, or even the earlier reveal about the phone call logs.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#163
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

What really bugs me about this discussion is that all this has been going on for years for foreigners, and nobody denies it. It's apparently ok that these companies and agencies spy on everyone but US citizens. Don't get me wrong, it's bad that they do this to US citizens, but at least it's your government (doesn't make it better, I know, but still.)

>We have rights to privacy and protection from unreasonable search and seizure.

I want those rights too. I might have them on paper (since it's a democracy here in Europe as well, and there are agreements), but it seems like nobody in charge cares either way.

> If you -- Hacker News reader -- decided to run for congress tomorrow, you might not win, but you won't be killed, sabotaged, or secretly blocked.

I cannot run. I'm not from the US. I can't even vote. I can try to make my government do something about it, but you know how that goes.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#164
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Willingly" is the point of contention. The CEOs complied. Whether they felt like they had a choice in the matter is another question entirely.

Twitter isn't on the list. Obviously someone put up a fight.

Or wasn't asked because nearly all of the content is public already. Or is going to cave after some unknown amount of resistance in the future like Apple, Facebook, and Google did. Or dozens of other possibilities.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#165
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

As many have stated, the problem is with inevitable abuse of power. It may or may not be happening now, but it will. Recent IRS disclosure that they targeted Tea Party-linked organizations for audits is one example. I doubt it was deliberately ordered by the administration, but someone, somewhere thought it was a good idea. Search queries alone will probably tell you which way a person is leaning in an election. That…

Tea party groups weren't targeted for audits. Groups that applied for tax exempt status on basis of providing social welfare were sent for additional screening to ensure the group was not primarily a political group. There were over 300 applications sent for additional screening. 1/3 were conservative groups. 1/3 were liberal. The whole problem was the selection criteria for being reviewed - based on the name of the group.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#166
post #86

I'm saddened to see Dropbox on the list. Did they choose to participate or is it mandatory? In any case, we've moved several projects to BTSync recently from Dropbox (for no other reason than to free up space on Dropbox for our personal files) and have been enjoying the service. As a p2p encrypted protocol, I imagine it's much more difficult to eavesdrop on your files and would actually require a warrant to obtain. I…

Is there an open source dropbox-style app that I can install on my own server?

Try git-annex and git-annex-assistant; it doesn't even require a central server.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#167
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

"These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish"

Yes, "national security assets" would never be used for silly things like the war on drugs:

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-01-12/local/me-147_1_drug-c...

That is the problem with this sort of argument. Things done to catch terrorists usually wind up being used for law enforcement purposes years down the road. Terrorism just is not common enough to justify the expenditure; eventually, after the well-connected companies and contractors have laughed their way to the bank, some politician comes in and says, "This is a waste of money, but it would be less wasteful to use it to help our poor, overburdened cops!"

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#168
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three letter agencies approach the executive team directly. A decision to participate has to be made at the exec team/board level. If the CEO doesn't know about it, then the company has some serious communication issues.

"Willingly" is the point of contention. The CEOs complied. Whether they felt like they had a choice in the matter is another question entirely.

Maybe they noticed what happened to Joe Nacchio?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#169
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. LE requests to FB simply do not work that way. They can make a request online, which is checked for proper authority, etc. The guidelines FB follows can be viewed at https://www.facebook.com/safety/groups/law/guidelines/ and the idea that FB just randomly hands out full read access to user data is either a paranoid delusion or calculated deception. Maybe you can tell us which one you were aiming for.

He's referring to the linked article, so your personal attack is misdirected. 'With a few clicks and an affirmation that the subject is believed to be engaged in terrorism, espionage or nuclear proliferation, an analyst obtains full access to Facebook’s “extensive search and surveillance capabilities against the variety of online social networking services.”'

But that's not a personal attack. The comment also mentions speculations about "rejoice" when they opened the Facebook graph, after believing what the article says about FB's methods of data sharing without further questioning.

Again: Questioning the motives behind an attempt of persuasion argument isn't a personal attack.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#170
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

The loss of privacy is massive in comparison to the lives lost to terrorism. More people die each year due to car accidents than have lost their lives to all terrorist attacks on US Soil. If the information that is being gathered is about safety, then why isn't the government isn't creating a massive program to strictly monitor highway speeds, traffic roadways, and increase traffic safety then? Answer: The informatio…

We have such a massive program, according to many; the NTSB is a big bureaucracy and a lot of people consider the whole concept of speed limits and traffic police as a encroachment upon their freedom rather than a reasonable collective decision on how to share transit arteries.

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

This seems a rather inappropriate aphorism, since most people here would very much like to deny the NSA access to information about their phone usage. This is an argument against censorship rather than one in support of privacy.

I don't think you've really thought this argument through. I don't think the government is so much interested in vastly expanding its powers of information gathering (although as I've noted elsewhere, the government has had unlimited access to your phone records, by order of the Supreme court, since 1979), as it is in maximizing its predictive abilities within its existing legal limits - which is also considered by many to be part of its job. It's not so much you vs. the government as you vs. a large number of your fellow citizens that simply don't share your beliefs about privacy, and who choose to elect law-and-order types more often than civil-liberties types.

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