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Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

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Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#161

Post by skrebbel »

scrapcode wrote: post #49
InclinedPlane wrote: post #44

People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs. Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be…

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

Upvoted to counter the ridiculous downvote legion. I fully disagree with your point, but it's a fair point worthy of HN, and I applaud you for uttering what is clearly a minority opinion here.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#162

Post by lawnchair_larry »

mpyne wrote: post #113
eru wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway and Sweden don't seem too bad.

Assange apparently disagrees.

Quite the opposite. He has been asking Sweden to guarantee that he will not be extradited to the US, and in return he will face trial in Sweden. They are still trying to negotiate this.

He has criticisms about what has happened in Sweden, no doubt. But it's the prospect of going near a US prison that is the non-starter, and the basis of his asylum.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#163

Post by chc »

sukuriant wrote: post #154
mcherm wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know plenty of unmotivated individuals that would love to sit around with a bunch of other lazy-asses and be fed 3 meals a day. For free. Don't you? No. I know absolutely no people who would choose to be put in prison simply because they would be fed. I cannot imagine a wealthy society (and make no bones about it, our society is wealthy enough that people can be fed) which would permit that. > It has to strike on…

> No. I know absolutely no people who would choose to be put in prison simply because they would be fed. I cannot imagine a wealthy society (and make no bones about it, our society is wealthy enough that people can be fed) which would permit that. Have you seen The Green Mile? I think that's the name of the movie, where the lead character contemplating committing a crime just so life would be easier again. Some peopl…

That movie also features a guy who can raise the dead. Do you find it credible on that matter as well?

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#164

Post by chc »

rdl wrote: post #145
moxie wrote: post #140

Many of the structures that make up our society (jails, taxes, laws, rulers) were not "our" creation, but the creation of kings. When those kings were deposed, rather than abolishing the structures those kings had created, they were instead largely preserved and put under "democratic" control. It could be that this was a mistake: that there's something structurally intrinsic to the instruments of monarchies that can…

What are structures that make up our society that were not creations of kings? (i.e. things created in the last hundred or two years, under democracy). Are these any less difficult to change? Fiat-money Central Banks mostly were created under democracies, and seem quite resistant to change. Social-welfare programs. Anything related to lobbying. I think the razor points to "institutions are highly resistant to change"…

I don't think moxie is suggesting that they are durable because of their origin, but something more along the lines of what you're saying. I think the point is that they aren't the sort of thing a modern democracy would come up with on its own, but they're very hard to get rid of once you've allowed them in.

(Not meaning to put words in anyone's mouth — just offering the thought the way my brain processed it.)

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#165

Post by Karunamon »

skrebbel wrote: post #161
scrapcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

Upvoted to counter the ridiculous downvote legion. I fully disagree with your point, but it's a fair point worthy of HN, and I applaud you for uttering what is clearly a minority opinion here.

Advocating what amounts to rape and torture just because we don't break it into its components (it's tacitly accepted, after all) is utterly abhorrent and deserves every step closer to invisible that it's getting.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#166

Post by yoster »

scrapcode wrote: post #49
InclinedPlane wrote: post #44

People often ask the hypothetical of what sorts of behavior we consider normal today that people in the far future will regard as barbaric or bizarre. Our prison system is probably near the top of that list, for a variety of reasons. Not least of which is the sheer size of the prison population these days due to the war on drugs. Even more significant is the widespread societal belief that prison experience should be…

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

How about all the innocent people who end up in prison? A small fraction of those people are exonerated. Imagine if you were sent to prison because of the color of your skin, you were falsely accused, or just because of plain corruption? Scrapcode, you better pray that you don't ever end up like one of those unfortunate people. Our justice system is broken and far from being able to be fixed. Justice is a joke, and so far it is truly blind....

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#167

Post by cobrausn »

Camillo wrote: post #153
bdunbar wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> none of this attitude This is not an actual prevailing attitude in the US.

Yes it is.

If you are going to level an accusation like 'the majority of Americans think prisoner-on-prisoner rape is a-ok', then the burden of proof is on you.

I won't even say that nobody thinks that way, I just want proof that this is the prevailing mindset.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#168

Post by cobrausn »

Confusion wrote: post #83
scrapcode wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kind of glad that this is your perception. This should be everyone's perception of prison. You should have an extreme necessity to keep your ass out of prison. You should be scared absolutely shitless of prison, so much that you play exactly by the rules to keep yourself from ever going there. Our prison system does a pretty good job at driving this perception home. Prison is not a rehabilitation center. If it we…

Western European prisons, Australian prisons, Japanese prisons and prisons in other civilized, well-developed, rich countries are much nicer to stay in than American prisons and still our criminal problem isn't nearly as large as yours. I'm not the least bit afraid of going to prison here. Still I don't break the law, for reasons better than fear of prison.

On the subject of prison harshness I don't think holding up Japan as a model of care and compassion is a good idea (link is old but not much has changed, I hear).

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are...

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#169

Post by skrebbel »

Karunamon wrote: post #165
skrebbel wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted to counter the ridiculous downvote legion. I fully disagree with your point, but it's a fair point worthy of HN, and I applaud you for uttering what is clearly a minority opinion here.

Advocating what amounts to rape and torture just because we don't break it into its components (it's tacitly accepted, after all) is utterly abhorrent and deserves every step closer to invisible that it's getting.

Soo, people who you disagree with should be stopped from spreading their opinions? Come on, it's not that extreme, he's supporting the status quo. It's not like he's saying that all should be killed. For comparison's sake, I once wrote here that "the Israeli government are a bunch of nazis" (and I'm still ashamed of that), and I got fewer downvotes (which doesn't make any sense at all, it was a horrible and worthless thing to write). In fact, people who disagreed with me took on the discussion and I learned a lot. That's what HN should be about.

I really don't understand why supporting the current US prison system is an opinion so dangerous that it must be hidden from sight.

Also, if you would've carefully read his post, you'd have seen that he doesn't advocate rape and torture, but the perception of it. It's a subtle difference, but a significant one.

Re: Solitary in Iran Nearly Broke Me. Then I Went Inside America's Prisons

#170

Post by grecy »

gknoy wrote: post #149
mcherm wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know plenty of unmotivated individuals that would love to sit around with a bunch of other lazy-asses and be fed 3 meals a day. For free. Don't you? No. I know absolutely no people who would choose to be put in prison simply because they would be fed. I cannot imagine a wealthy society (and make no bones about it, our society is wealthy enough that people can be fed) which would permit that. > It has to strike on…

I've read (though I cannot find a link) of a homeless (or sick?) person who commited crimes because he felt prison's shelter + food was better than freezing/starving on the street. Reading the account, it was hard to consider than an irrational decision.

in America where if you are poor you are essentially fcked.

That is not the case in other Developed countries.

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