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The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#161

Post by flyinRyan »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #61

"It turns out that terrorism is much harder than most people think. It's hard to find willing terrorists, it's hard to put a plot together, it's hard to get materials, and it's hard to execute a workable plan. As a collective group, terrorists are dumb, and they make dumb mistakes; criminal masterminds are another myth from movies and comic books." He is very wrong. He is confusing foot soldiers with their leaders. T…

>What we've seen so far is the evolution of their attempts to bridge that gap.

Examples? You mean like 9/11?

For true believers like yourself, what would the "end game" look like? What would have to happen before we can stop thinking about this bullshit and consider terrorism a thing of the past? Is that something that could ever happen or will there always be "bad guys" that require us to bomb weddings, assassinate american citizens and so on?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#162

Post by flyinRyan »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #129
venomsnake wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried in a federal court with the full rights and protections defined by the US constitution etc etc. Killing them like osama, blasting them with a drone or detaining them in gitmo means the terrorist have won, because they have dragged the system down to their own level. Also it still may be not an act of terror. Just some wackos that decide it is fun to blow stuff up. They don't have a need for a political agenda o…

"Killing them like osama[...] means the terrorist have won," I don't understand the trouble you have with the Osama situation. The US attempted to apprehend Osama so they could bring him to justice but he resisted and was shot to death. How would you have handled that situation?

Bullshit, have you read the first hand accounts? They weren't there to apprehend anyone. And of course you "resist" if a bunch of people with guns storm into your home.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#163

Post by rayiner »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #160
rayiner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen to Obama's speech on the issue. It's targeted to calm the average American. Listen to the word he uses to characterize the administration's response: justice. What does "justice" mean in this context? It means nothing other than the government's response to activity that threatens social stability and psychologically remedy the injuries created by actions that upset social stability.

What does the War in Iraq or having to remove one's shoes before boarding an aircraft have to do with justice? I don't think anyone is making the argument that there should be no justice. Prosecuting the criminals who commit murder for the purpose of terrorism is clearly a "no reasonable person could disagree" sort of a thing. But the question remains, how is justice won? In theory we could impose martial law and sus…

All that is really irrelevant to my point, whixh is that the nature of the word "justice" shows that people are concerned about social order, not just the individual likelihood of being killed. One can argue about the extent to which any given response helps maintain order.

That's why people care about "justice" for murderers even though more people are killed by auto accidents. Murder upsets the social order. A car accident doesn't.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#164

Post by flyinRyan »

rayiner wrote: post #76
ScottBurson wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the drones are more likely to cause a 10x 9/11 event, by helping al Qaeda's recruiting efforts? I don't know that that's a likely outcome, but I think it's possible. In any case, I think this idea that we can pre-emptively kill everyone who might possibly attack us at some point in the future is both dangerous and evil.

I object to the characterization that we're killing random people with drones. We are killing people whose stated goal is to attack us. There is nothing evil about that. Use of force to defend ones self, whether preemptive or reactive, is the closest thing to a "natural right" that exists in this world.

What the fuck? Citations please? There is absolutely no reason I can see to beleive that every person we kill with drones had any plan (realistic or otherwise) to attack us? Where do you get this? Because of Obama's reclassification of male casualties between 16-65 as combatants? Is that kind of word-game nonsense really so effective?

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#165

Post by bane »

Talking with some friends we all were reminded, we've been in a constant state of war for over a decade now (20 combined years if you think about in a different way). There's a qualitative difference in the populace since 9/11. The first responders in Boston were nurses who had been combat medics during the height of the Iraq war -- people who had seen the same scene dozens of times. Following them were soldiers in uniform who cleared the area of debris to make evacuation easier. It's no doubt a reason the deaths were held to 3.

One of the major outcomes of WWI and WWII was a rapid advancement in trauma surgery, with reconstructive surgery advancing decades almost overnight. It'll be one of the enduring legacies of the Iraq and Afghan Wars that those who lot their legs in this event will be running the marathon again.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#166

Post by rayiner »

venomsnake wrote: post #125
MichaelApproved wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"bring the responsible to justice" Probably the most difficult parts of this will be to define who is responsible and what exactly constitutes as justice.

Tried in a federal court with the full rights and protections defined by the US constitution etc etc. Killing them like osama, blasting them with a drone or detaining them in gitmo means the terrorist have won, because they have dragged the system down to their own level. Also it still may be not an act of terror. Just some wackos that decide it is fun to blow stuff up. They don't have a need for a political agenda o…

If he's not caught on US soil and is not a citizen, like Osama, then he has no protections under the constitution and its duck hunting season. The Constitution does not create any protections for international fugitives engaged in acts of war. Terrorists are the modern day Barbary Pirates. Nobody in the founding generation suggested they should get full Constitutional protections and a trial.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#167

Post by SkyMarshal »

chii wrote: post #152
nraynaud wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

read "Boston Massacre" memorial plate. The wording is interesting (at least for a foreigner).

what does it say on it, if you can recall?

With a little googling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boston_Massacre_high-res.j...

and more clearly:

http://www.masshist.org/database/transcription.cfm?transcrip...

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#168

Post by theorique »

bconway wrote: post #147
sheri wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me offer a different opinion. There was a series of bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993. Thirteen different explosions in the span of a few hours across the city's landmarks. 250 people died. One of the blasts was in the Bombay stock exchange. This was on a Friday, and the stock exchange opened for business on Monday. This was a huge PR win for Mumbai, as the media talked about the resilience of the residents and the m…

Exactly this. Holding your head high is not a response to terrorism.

What's a better response? Hiding?

It's pretty much the best option, under the circumstances.

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#169

Post by nraynaud »

chii wrote: post #152
nraynaud wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

read "Boston Massacre" memorial plate. The wording is interesting (at least for a foreigner).

what does it say on it, if you can recall?

That they mobbed some soldiers who openend fire and killed five. With a real effort on painting the soldiers in a negative light, and the mob in a positive light.

My head was screaming: "in Vietnam, Iraq or Afganistan there would be medals for that, this is all about spinning the news".

Re: The Boston Marathon Bombing: Keep Calm and Carry On

#170

Post by nraynaud »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #167
chii wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what does it say on it, if you can recall?

With a little googling: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boston_Massacre_high-res.j... and more clearly: http://www.masshist.org/database/transcription.cfm?transcrip...

Sorry, I was just referring to the plate in the street. I didn't know about this article and that there was a possible confusion.
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