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Why is there only one Elon Musk?

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Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#161
post #144
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inspecting into his marriage feels dirty and indeed, tabloid. But if we want to get the full picture of entrepreneurial life, we can't ignore personal life. On the contrary, you can, and you should. The era when a man or a woman is defined by his relationships and family is over, and good riddance. People shouldn't be pressured into a family lifestyle if they don't feel a motivation in that direction. Can you tell…

I wouldn't dispute that Musk will go down in history as an entrepreneur and not a father. That's not the point. The point is that when you show Musk as an inspiration for entrepreneurship, you should look at his whole life- because being a serial entrepreneur absolutely has an effect on your personal life. The title of the story is "Why is there only one Elon Musk"- there are many, connected answers. His personal lif…

> The point is that when you show Musk as an inspiration for entrepreneurship, you should look at his whole life- because being a serial entrepreneur absolutely has an effect on your personal life.

Think about what you're saying. I hope by now you are aware that women rightly object to this kind of mixing of the personal and professional, and that to refer to a woman's personal and relationship choices in connection with her professional standing is an obvious and much-lamented kind of sexism.

> Just because it doesn't define him doesn't mean it isn't relevant.

Do avoid saying this about a woman, about, say, Marissa Mayer, present CEO at Yahoo. Her personal and professional lives are rightly evaluated separately.

When you listen to Musk's interviews, what strikes you is the degree to which his accomplishments and his value system are strongly connected -- that what he accomplishes has everything to do with his approach to problem solving, and nothing to do with his relationships.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#162
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> he era when a man or a woman is defined by his relationships and family is over, and good riddance. > No it's not. Those things help to define a person. When you try to refute someone's position, it's expected that you will offer a counterargument, not a different topic. Yes, relationships help define a person. No, that doesn't mean the era hasn't ended in which one's relationships are central to one's identity.

Sure, I'll bite. You argue that family is no longer important (or, 'optional', in your words) because Wikipedia does not elevate the status of, or obsess over the details of the family of a notable person in the same fashion. This is a ridiculous argument [1]. Who cares what Wikipedia thinks? Who cares what google thinks? Who cares what society thinks? A relationship is a very personal connection between two people.…

> You argue that family is no longer important ...

I never said that. I recommend that you argue against my positions, not yours.

> This is a ridiculous argument ...

Yes, it is -- and it is your argument, not mine.

Your argument goes downhill from there, relying on the much-revered but meaningless "who cares?" meme.

> ... it's absurd to assert that they're not worth having just because they're not preserved for all eternity.

Yes -- good thing that I didn't make that argument, only you did.

My advice is to try to stick to the content of the other person's post, rather than make something up to conveniently argue against.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#163
post #97

This is one of the more annoyingly shortsighted posts I've read on HN in a long while. It reflects the attitude of someone too spoonfed by blockbuster movie culture: if shit ain't being blown up, then who cares? When Norman Borlaug died a few years back, there were a lot of people who thought, "Who?" And when they learned that this farm-raised Iowan is credited with saving a billion human lives, they said, "Well why…

In 2113, I imagine Musk will be celebrated for killing oil-powered cars and launching space migration, while Borlaug cursed for irresponsible irrigation, carcinogenic pesticides, no longer viable synthetic fertilizers, over-engineered crops, and neocolonial squandering of terrestrial resources.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#164
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disproportionate share of billionaires are engineers. Of course part of that is because the petro-chemical industry mints a lot of billionaires. E.g. Charles and David Koch both have bachelors and masters degrees (mechanical and chemical engineering) from MIT.

> A disproportionate share of billionaires are engineers. Thanks, do you have a cite for this? My intuition is still that a much higher fraction of billionaires are business/management types than the general population of people at their intelligence level.

> My intuition is still that a much higher fraction of billionaires are business/management types than the general population of people at their intelligence level.

It can be true that business types and engineers are over-represented among billionaires.

It also depends on how you define "engineer." Nobody makes billions as a line engineer (but nobody makes billions as a line "manager" either). But in my experience once you get a degree in engineering, that totally shapes your world view and how you approach problems even if you go on and do other things. So I think those people should count too.

Using a relatively narrow definition, out of the Forbes 25 you might count Charles and David Koch (BS/MS in ChemE/MechE), Jeff Bezos (BS EECS), Larry Page and Sergey Brin (BS CS), and Mukesh Ambani (BS ChemE). These guys all made their fortune at companies related to their engineering discipline. Broadening the definition, you can also throw in there Larry Ellison (no degree, but worked at Amdahl and Ampex as a programmer on databases), and Bill Gates. Finally, you could throw in Michael Bloomberg (BS EE--went straight into finance) and Bernard Arnault (BS CivE, worked as a civil engineer but made his fortune elsewhere).

That's disproportionate, considering that only 1-3% of the population is engineers.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A disproportionate share of billionaires are engineers. Thanks, do you have a cite for this? My intuition is still that a much higher fraction of billionaires are business/management types than the general population of people at their intelligence level.

> My intuition is still that a much higher fraction of billionaires are business/management types than the general population of people at their intelligence level. It can be true that business types and engineers are over-represented among billionaires. It also depends on how you define "engineer." Nobody makes billions as a line engineer (but nobody makes billions as a line "manager" either). But in my experience o…

Ahh, this is very interesting. Thanks much.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#166
Fascinating discussion. Restores my faith in HN to have these sorts of threads.

#1 To edw519 on Elon's failed marriage, I'm reminded of that economist joke about "is that expensive or is it valuable?" For me, my family is priceless I cherish them with all my heart, but for others I know their work drives them. I don't begrudge them for having different reward structures in their brain, and I would never go so far as to suggest that one set of choices is "better" than another. I share the opinion that making a vow of marriage is a pretty huge promise, but that is because in my context it was a huge promise that I made. As opposed to folks I've known who got married but made a different sort of promise. I attended a wedding where the vows were not "until death do us part" but were "for as long as we both shall love." To which I said, "Seriously? Until you decide you are tired of it?" But my point is that we don't know what promise Elon made when he married.

#2 on the "where are they" question, the author (jnp) doesn't take into account that first you have to be a billionaire and then you have to care about "sci-fi stuff". When I sample the general population I find that people who care about science fiction type technologies and making them real is a small fraction of the general population, so I am not surprised that only a small fraction of the billionaires have similar ideas about interesting questions. What I find even more amazing is that none of them have apparently taken any of the 'unconventional' fusion projects under their wing (which is almost thematically Tony Stark).

The last bit I'll add is a bit I've added before which is that I have observed that "rich you" is a different person than "not-rich you" for most technologists I've met. (sample size isn't large but I think over the years I've known/observed on the order of 200 people who have gone from "not rich"[1] to "rich"[2] and in most of the cases there was a pretty big shift in what they valued and who they were. Because of that one has to add that someone who is interested in sci-fi stuff now, needs to still be interested in it post-change. And as others have pointed out, Elon has put everything on the line to advance sci-fi stuff a number of times, and that willingness to risk being "not rich" again is perhaps the rarest trait of all.

[1] Defining "not rich" as having debts that they would have to forfeit if they lost employment and future obligations that are not yet funded.

[2] Defining "rich" as having no debts for which forfeiting them would change their lifestyle, and having a source of income from passive investing that is sufficient under both optimistic and pessimistic economic scenarios.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#167
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to say this is that the process of becoming a billionaire selects for intelligence, but it actually seems to select strongly against a great technical training and nerdy dreams. (Maybe I'm wrong about that?) Would be really interesting to know how many billionaires have STEM PhD's after controlling for their general intelligence.

A disproportionate share of billionaires are engineers. Of course part of that is because the petro-chemical industry mints a lot of billionaires. E.g. Charles and David Koch both have bachelors and masters degrees (mechanical and chemical engineering) from MIT.

I just asked a friend of mine who works at a major information vendor which keeps data bases of this type of stuff. Here's what he said:

> So from our records, which is a little skewed because it lists anybody who was at some point a billionaire (just shy of 2k in our records); of the people who went to college:

> ~ half were STEM related in their undergraduate. I excluded business studies but included math, applied math, etc.

> ~2/3 of the STEM undergrads went on for a business masters, these are more recent than say the Rockefeller generation.

> Many of the other half have a note for a major relationship with wealth (this could be family or friend or marriage).

> ~ 4% of our people have a PhD which I think is above the average.

> The interesting part is what are the other degrees: Many were/ are philosophy or law degrees of some sort. The next popular masters degree after business/ finance is law.

Very strong evidence that the lack of more Elon Musks (if there is one) can not be explained by billionaires being predominately educated in business rather than STEM subjects.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#168
Part of the issue - only about 200 of those billionaires are under 50. People can be "Tony Stark" after that, but I think its probably more likely that younger people will have the energy and willingness to invest the decades it takes to build large disruptive companies.

A non-negligible amount of wealth is inherited. Again, not to say that inherited wealthy aren't going to be making innovative companies - Tony Stark himself inherited Stark Industries. But I think the Elon Musk assumption is for serial ambition in entrepreneurship, which probably more likely comes from self-made people.

A lot of wealthy (and innovative) people like doing things behind the scenes. Like Tony Stark, but without the fireworks and cheerleaders.

Finally, as others have said, there are other people who have made multiple innovations on the scale of Musk - Edison, Tesla, Ford, Howard Hughes in the past, more recently Gates and Allen, Steve Jobs, Larry and Sergey. Maybe Zuckerberg and Dorsey are the next to join these ranks. And that is just in the computer and internet industries.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#169
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A disproportionate share of billionaires are engineers. Of course part of that is because the petro-chemical industry mints a lot of billionaires. E.g. Charles and David Koch both have bachelors and masters degrees (mechanical and chemical engineering) from MIT.

I just asked a friend of mine who works at a major information vendor which keeps data bases of this type of stuff. Here's what he said: > So from our records, which is a little skewed because it lists anybody who was at some point a billionaire (just shy of 2k in our records); of the people who went to college: > ~ half were STEM related in their undergraduate. I excluded business studies but included math, applied…

Very interesting, thanks for the data.

Re: Why is there only one Elon Musk?

#170
>Whether it’s transparent batteries, flexible displays, nano bots, affordable and effective VR headsets, highly-accurate and highly-portable motion sensors, self-driving cars, doors that unlock when you walk up to them, swallowable computers, affordable genetic testing

I think it's worth noting that many of the areas are saddled with burdensome regulation, with the caveat that this is certainly not the only or even the primary hindrance, and that the fact they may be hindrances doesn't in itself mean they aren't warranted.

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