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"Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

discuss.emberjs.com

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Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#161

Post by re_todd »

bphogan wrote: post #113
trek wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

You got feedback from a frustrated user, and I'm sure you didn't just dismiss it internally, so why did you dismiss it externally? Listen, I'd love to be able to write what I want, teach what I want, and do what I want without getting sarcastic reviews. But unfortunately people get frustrated and that's how they respond. "Oh, a tmux book? Who needs that?" "You suck" is very, very different from "the thing you built s…

Thank you for your Web Design book. As a programmer, it gave me the confidence to explore the design world.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#162

Post by bphogan »

re_todd wrote: post #161
bphogan wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got feedback from a frustrated user, and I'm sure you didn't just dismiss it internally, so why did you dismiss it externally? Listen, I'd love to be able to write what I want, teach what I want, and do what I want without getting sarcastic reviews. But unfortunately people get frustrated and that's how they respond. "Oh, a tmux book? Who needs that?" "You suck" is very, very different from "the thing you built s…

Thank you for your Web Design book. As a programmer, it gave me the confidence to explore the design world.

That's really, really cool to hear. Thank you so much.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#163

Post by tomku »

trek wrote: post #158
bphogan wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got feedback from a frustrated user, and I'm sure you didn't just dismiss it internally, so why did you dismiss it externally? Listen, I'd love to be able to write what I want, teach what I want, and do what I want without getting sarcastic reviews. But unfortunately people get frustrated and that's how they respond. "Oh, a tmux book? Who needs that?" "You suck" is very, very different from "the thing you built s…

In any other venue, I would 100% agree and would not have responded this way. Delvarworld's tone is totally mild and in keeping with typical internet culture. But Discourse's goal is to raise the bar. Significantly. They blog rather eloquently about it http://blog.discourse.org/2013/03/the-universal-rules-of-civ... And new topic posters are asked to keep that high standard in mind when posting. I'm sure his sarcasm w…

I can't help but feel that you're doing an excellent job of proving that a single short, civil post can do more damage to the community than any amount of slight sarcasm. If "absolute civility at all costs" is the basis for Discourse, I'd much rather try to have high quality discussions elsewhere.

Edit: The link you provided has "responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content" as part of a list of things to avoid.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#164

Post by kaoD »

robotmay wrote: post #102

Does anyone know of a JS framework which plays nicely with Server Sent Events or WebSockets? I've tried pretty much everything so far, and it's always a colossal hack to implement, as none of them seem to have been built with anything other than CRUD in mind.

SocketStream which is built around RPC (at least it was like that on 0.3 which I tried) and Derby.js which is build around model-view binding.

I used both a long time ago, not sure if they're still maintained.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#165

Post by ryderm »

jackmaney wrote: post #139
paulhauggis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been following the ember.js community for awhile and also trek. It's this attitude that makes me never want to use ember.js. If you check out his twitter account, you can see countless battles with new people just getting into ember. If you want someone to use your framework, it shouldn't be a verbal battle of passive aggressiveness and other childish antics. He is doing a disservice to the community and the f…

"It's this attitude that makes me never want to use ember.js." Agreed. In fact, I suspect I'll never end up using it, now.

While I totally agree that developers actions can be a turn off for using a library/framework/whatever, it also reminds me of political scandals. Just because person A cheated on his wife (or something similar) doesn't mean that his policies were not good.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#166

Post by robotmay »

kaoD wrote: post #164
robotmay wrote: post #102

Does anyone know of a JS framework which plays nicely with Server Sent Events or WebSockets? I've tried pretty much everything so far, and it's always a colossal hack to implement, as none of them seem to have been built with anything other than CRUD in mind.

SocketStream which is built around RPC (at least it was like that on 0.3 which I tried) and Derby.js which is build around model-view binding. I used both a long time ago, not sure if they're still maintained.

Ah I quite like those two, but I was hoping for some client-side ones as most of my projects are in Ruby :)

I should try a project on Node again at some point, it has been quite a while.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#167

Post by jonahx »

trek wrote: post #78
joshstrange wrote: post #27

Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

I don't think many would disagree with this principle, but I don't think his response qualifies as out-of-limit discourse.

I just read it as honest and accurate. He's not being a dick just for the sake of it. His thoughts sound exactly like what I would be thinking in his shoes. Knowing an actual user's moment-by-moment thoughts as he uses your product is invaluable. You shouldn't be encouraging him to bowdlerize that because it puts you off.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#168

Post by xmlblog »

trek wrote: post #78
joshstrange wrote: post #27

Trek is making a huge mistake IMHO. As a developer I can think of nothing more helpful than to get a "steam-of-consciousness" excerpt from our users. This is something no analytics package can tell you, if you want to make your "product" easy to use then this is the exact feedback you need. Delverworld was outlining the various pitfalls of getting started with ember.js and a core contributor shrugs it off because he…

I have admitted that, publicly, very often, in other topics on discuss.emberjs.com, on websites, on twitter, on videos, and elsewhere. It's no secret I'd like to improve the documentation for Ember.js and I'm already well aware of the places that people are facing difficulty right now. There's work, if people spent a moment reading the top topics in the forum, on a getting started guide with a direct call for feedbac…

Sometimes I miss the good old days of RTFM.

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#169

Post by kaoD »

robotmay wrote: post #166
kaoD wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SocketStream which is built around RPC (at least it was like that on 0.3 which I tried) and Derby.js which is build around model-view binding. I used both a long time ago, not sure if they're still maintained.

Ah I quite like those two, but I was hoping for some client-side ones as most of my projects are in Ruby :) I should try a project on Node again at some point, it has been quite a while.

It seems to me that this isn't feasible in pure client side because the server would have to agree on some kind of protocol.

Server-side is mandatory here. Unfortunately I cannot recommend any since I don't do Ruby :(

Maybe you don't need a framework but just a JSON-RPC[1] library.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON-RPC

Re: "Getting started with Ember.Js is easy." - No it isn't

#170

Post by Vekz »

Beyond Ember.js this is a highly constructive approach to any API Library you are developing. Developers tend to disregard User Experience when building out tools for other developers. Put yourself in a first time users perspective like this and try to relate to that stream of consciousness.
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