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SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

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Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#161
post #121

12 years ago I quit gaming because decent titles weren't available for Linux. I now have a great job and family, part of which I attribute to spending thousands of hours learning about life and technology instead of playing games. Give it up people, video games = fast-forwarding your life. (Actually I'm not really suggesting being that strict. I did return to play the occasional top title like Portal 2, but on a stri…

You're right, but you don't go far enough. Not only should we mostly give up games, but also film, TV, fictional books, travelling for pleasure, non-procreative sex. All they do is hurt society, cause pollution and produce nothing. Hell, why are you wasting time on a family? Think of all the Ruby books you could have read.

Except, in addition to being pleasurable, media shapes our society and culture. That we do more than just working to survive is perhaps one of humanity's defining features, and we should be embracing it. Video games are similar to books or film, in that they have dramatically influenced many of our minds and lives. That's why we get upset when publishers see our obsession and game merely as something to exploit for profit, then throw away, rather than as something that should be preserved as part of society's collective knowledge. Even if the DRM probably won't directly cause us any problems ever, it makes us uncomfortable. I noticed when playing the latest release of Metal Gear Solid, how significant the series has been to me.

When I played MG/MGS1, I was young - and, among other games, shared controller gameplay was a bonding experience between me and my friends. These friends are still my strongest, so no doubt it helped cement the friendship. MGS2 was when I was about 10, and starting to think somewhat philosophically. The ideas about AI and censorship, trans-humanism, robotics and nanotechnology significantly changed me and perhaps shaped my beliefs and future (in combination with films like The Matrix which I watched at the same time). MGS3, I played with my girlfriend when we first met - and even now we still talk about it, and have played it a few times since. I played MGS4 relatively recently, now moved out, living with girlfriend and working. That video game series, however, has been there, influencing my life in various ways from the sidelines - and that's just one video game out of hundreds I've played over the years. I remember when playing Sega Megadrive games when I was very young, trying to work out how they were made. It perhaps is when I started to get interested in programming.

Sure, you shouldn't be playing them all day every day - but that's just the age old problem of procrastination, living a balanced life and work before play. If you go too far down this path of maximum productivity, you start to burn out. Finding the play/work balance is hard, because on the one side is extreme sloth, and on the other is a path that, I believe, ends up making you a kind of solipsist/nihilist burnout.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#162
post #49

If they had called this Sim City Online and marketed as not the next Sim City, but more of an MMO like Ever Quest, Guild Wars, and Star Wars Galaxies would be people be complaining as much if they knew they had to be online to play it. Sim City 4, 2000, and the original still run perfect and are extremely fun to play. Sim City 4 is on Steam even making it easy to get right now. I'm tempted to pick that up since I hav…

> Sim City 4 is on Steam even making it easy to get right now

doesn't Steam also have DRM?

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#163
Perhaps its because I play MMOs and other online-only games, but the endless complaining about DRM and always-online play is getting a little boring.

What I have to wonder, though, is how they botched the launch so badly. They know when they are launching, they (should) roughly know how many users each server can support, and they should have a rough idea of how many games they are going to sale in the first few days.

How did they screw it up?

Is forecasting game purchases that inexact? I'd think you could derive a number at least close to being accurate from the amount of pre-sales, then multiply it by some factor to give yourself some safety. At the very least, you'd think there'd be contingency plans for quickly standing up new servers in response to demand.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the future of gaming. Then I guess I won't be gaming anymore. Not that I do much now, and I've mostly quit for other unrelated reasons, but if is the future of gaming, you can count me, and I'm sure many others, out. I used to game a lot. I used to spend a not insignificant amount of money on games. If the publishers want to basically steal my money and call me the thief, then they can forget about having me…

Actually it is the future, and like you I too don't buy games much any more. Your kids or your peer's kids though will play games this way because it is the only way to get them and they will think its 'normal.' Eventually you'll be called an 'old timer' and derided for all your comments about how in your day when you bought a game it didn't need to download 4GB of 'patches' nor did it require Internet access to run.…

Killing a game does generate negative customer sentiment, but if you have a game that hardly anybody plays anymore it's probably not enough to keep them from pulling the plug.

My guess is for "cult favorites" after some period of time they'll just push out a patch that removes the DRM and turn the servers off. Then it's just a question of losing multiplayer.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#165

> There's also the question of preserving gaming history. As we saw with THQ last month, publishers aren't immortal. They can die, and had THQ implemented always-online DRM in Darksiders II, all copies of that game might've died with it when the rights to the series weren't bought up by another publisher. That's the part that concerns me the most. I still install (and play) lots of old games on every computer I own -…

but piracy seems to be our only guaranteed method of preserving them You aren't going to pirate Sim City 5. This is the future of gaming. Companies are just going to avoid all the grief of piracy and weird DRM by either moving to locked-down platforms (iOS and consoles) or into games that have essential online components. It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. I'd love to by a game and install it on my PC without it taki…

Minecraft seems to be doing pretty well. EA can do whatever it wants, that doesn't mean every developer will follow in their path. Sure, lots will sell out, but more show up to take their place.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#167
I somehow saw this coming as recent as Sim City 4. But all in all, this is proving to be a good improvement, but a bad implementation. What is even the need of the online DRM? is this another of those: " Try to save billions of dollars from piracy, that do not exist " ?

I was planning to buy this game, now I don't.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are pissed because it's an artificial restriction. People understand that talking to a server is necessary for an MMO to work, and they also understand it is not necessary for SimCity to work. When an MMO talks to a server. it's in the user's best interest. When SimCity tries to talk to a server, it's against the user's best interest, who might want to play in a place without an internet connection, but is pre…

I'm skeptical about EA doing this because they are scary and evil (although I won't argue with that specifically). I am open to the idea that there is much more to the simulation than users are able to replicate on their own computers at home. I wish EA/Maxis would address specifically why an always on connection is required, so we don't have an abnormal amount of unfounded nerdrage opinions floating around about DRM…

I am not open to the idea that there is that much more to the simulation. If there was, there wouldn't be reports of people being able to play without connection for extended periods as long as they don't try to interact with the region.

As far as I can determine, and others (I frequent /r/simcity, this seems the consensus) agree, the requirement for the connection boils down to two things:

1. Maxis thought that the interaction between various cities in a region and the global marketplace for resources was good multiplayer gameplay.

2. DRM.

Which reason is actually primary will probably only ever be known by insiders of EA/Maxis.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#169
post #49

If they had called this Sim City Online and marketed as not the next Sim City, but more of an MMO like Ever Quest, Guild Wars, and Star Wars Galaxies would be people be complaining as much if they knew they had to be online to play it. Sim City 4, 2000, and the original still run perfect and are extremely fun to play. Sim City 4 is on Steam even making it easy to get right now. I'm tempted to pick that up since I hav…

> Sim City 4 is on Steam even making it easy to get right now doesn't Steam also have DRM?

Steam requires authentication with their servers, and that authentication is cache-able for offline access, for a period up to a month before requiring reauthentication.

It is DRM, but I don't find it to be onerous.

Individual publishers may add additional DRM measures, at their option. Those can sometimes be painful, but are clearly stated on the steam store page for each piece of software.

Re: SimCity Burning: A Warning to Publishers on The Dangers of Always-Online DRM

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other than DRM? There is no DRM in an MMO. What stops you is the lack of them giving you the server software. Facebook doesn't give you their server software either, would you call that DRM? This is absolutely no different. Considering that a huge proportion of Hacker News is devoted to web based startups, you would think that this would be fairly obvious.

"There is no DRM in an MMO" Thus explaining why people need to do things like patch the game and/or modify their hosts file in order to connect to third-party servers. If trying to authenticate the server you connect to and leaving you with no options for connecting to third party servers is not DRM, what would you call it? "What stops you is the lack of them giving you the server software." Nope, the protocols are r…

> Nope, the protocols are reverse engineered and people create their own server software.

Which is one of two reasons (the other being anti-cheating) that newer games withhold a large part of the game logic on the server side. It is possible to reverse engineer game logic but impractical: you might as well rewrite the game.

If you have a look at efforts to reverse engineer Diablo 3, you'll see that most of the game is missing without the server. You can run around but you can't do anything.

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