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Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

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Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#161

Post by tome »

bmelton wrote: post #76
lolcraft wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also used, as I understand, as sort of legal allowance to form paramilitary parties with sort of like police powers. So you, as a citizen, could enforce laws when there was no police or army able to do so for you. For instance, in the days of slavery, the 2nd amendment was used to justify groups of armed thugs [1] that hunted black slaves on the run. I've never understood the logic behind Republicans of the 20…

To everyone who assumes that "tyrannical government" is always read to mean "our" government, here's a primer. 1) Everybody should (and probably already does) know that the United States was essentially formed out of that exact type of rebellion. The arms that won us the war of Independence were all provided by private citizens, just as the cannons were, the ships that formed our navy, etc. If we hadn't had private w…

Everybody should (and probably already does) know that the United States was essentially formed out of that exact type of rebellion. The arms that won us the war of Independence were all provided by private citizens, just as the cannons were, the ships that formed our navy, etc. If we hadn't had private weapons, we wouldn't have had anywhere remotely enough arms to have won the war.

Do US Americans really think it would have been terrible if the British Empire had remained in control and their country turned out like Canada, Australia or New Zealand?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#162

Post by knowtheory »

phaus wrote: post #160
knowtheory wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but the mass murders that we've seen in the past several years do not typically (I'm not aware of any cases at least) involve lock circumvention. Additionally the process of circumventing a lock requires time, effort, at least a little practice and familiarity with the tools, which most of these guys do not invest into their murder sprees. Whether a lock can be broken is a different matter from whether a lock…

I agree that there hasn't been a precedent for mass murderers circumventing locks, but that's partly due to the fact that mass murders typically occur in public, where doors are kept unlocked for the most part. Some lock circumvention techniques take almost no skill, and no time at all. I've seen cipher locks that cost thousands circumvented by lightly tapping the housing with a rubber mallet or sticking a paperclip…

Right, but think about the mechanics of this.

Shooter has his gun(s) out, he approaches door, he now has to holster gun, get out bump key, focus on and fiddle with door, and once it's unlocked, open up the door, unholster his weapon, and then enter the door.

How many times do you think the shooter is going to expose himself like that? Does that feed into the fantasy of stalking people through the hallways shooting them?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#163

Post by damoncali »

Yver wrote: post #154
giardini wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just want to say as an American, I am so fed up with all these gun stories." Me too. But it won't end soon. Currently every shooting in every city is a candidate for promotion to a national media campaign that is focused on gaining additional restrictions on firearms, especially at the federal level (but also state level: Colorado is at this moment passing new highly-restrictive state firearms laws). Every opportu…

> orchestrated attempt to [...] confiscate all firearms Are there people out there who can read this and not think that this person is mental? I can't see a difference between this conspiracy theory and all the others: chemtrails, fluoride, mind control, FEMA camps, Time Cube.

It's not a conspiracy. It is the stated goal of politicians who are currently in office. I think the strong language of the parent is throwing you off what he actually said.

Feinstein in her own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffI-tWh37UY

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#164

Post by nitrogen »

tibbon wrote: post #86
spydum wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a commercial airliner.. To my knowledge private planes don't have crazy restrictions or invasive searches. Indeed, you don't have to fly at all.

The Pro-Gun group however pushes for the right to carry weapons on private property as well (stores, bars, schools, etc)

Those are still public places (if by "school" you mean "university"), even if they are privately owned. Also, with a sufficiently rigorous check required to get a concealed carry permit, what is there to worry about?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#165

Post by tome »

monochromatic wrote: post #146
tome wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone here will disagree with you on that point, but many will say they don't believe the trade-off is worth it.

I dunno what to say to that, other than "wow." That is just a shocking amount of honesty.

Are you serious?

You really think that the UK, France, Canada, Australia, Sweden etc. etc. are at such a risk of tyranny from their governments that they should expose their children to more random shootings to reduce the risk?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#166

Post by Shivetya »

flexie wrote: post #97
giardini wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just want to say as an American, I am so fed up with all these gun stories." Me too. But it won't end soon. Currently every shooting in every city is a candidate for promotion to a national media campaign that is focused on gaining additional restrictions on firearms, especially at the federal level (but also state level: Colorado is at this moment passing new highly-restrictive state firearms laws). Every opportu…

"In essence, this is an orchestrated attempt to use the Newtown shootings and the subsequent heightened public sensitivity..." Oh please. Who orchestrated that? The media got together? The government? There is nothing odd in requiring safety from other people's activities, whether that's their their reckless driving or their gun fetish.

The media does tend to sensationalize it, and yes certain people in government exploit it for personal gain.

I look at it this way, just be glad they can sensationalize it, the alternative would be that this is so routine it doesn't make people think.

America does not have a gun problem; it has a cultural problem that many refuse to recognize. The look to ban the tool employed by this culture but not to find how to end this culture. Ever listen to the music on the streets? Ever listen to the talk in a down town truly urban mall area?

We spend more time coddling and telling them its not their fault than focusing on getting them productive and responsible. People who are told over and over they are not responsible tend to become just that.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#167

Post by curiousdannii »

monochromatic wrote: post #98
tome wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And for many attorneys in safe, democratic, non-tyrannical Western countries, the "right to bear arms" is not one they are aware of.

I won't say that banning guns leads to tyranny in absolutely every instance, but it sure makes it easier.

Got an example where guns which were allowed were then banned by a government which then turned tyrannical?

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#168

Post by jpk »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #113
fakeer wrote: post #6

Good that the man was not found there(in a sense that no one was harmed). I still would like to understand few things. Of course I shall not be able to understand how it feels to have a gun when you want it(and afterwards take a decision on how to use it. To defend yourself or flash in malls or kill children for fun or out of depression) as I live in a country where having fire-arms is either a luxury for powerful an…

The police are not always capable of helping you when you need them. The oft-quoted saying is "when seconds count the police are minutes away", and it is very, very true. Guns used in lawful self-defense, which often involves nothing more than drawing the gun causing the attacker to flee the scene, stop an incredible amount of crimes every day. More so, the reason that gun rights are so fundamental in the US is that…

> More so, the reason that gun rights are so fundamental in the US is that they are intended as a key tool to prevent the establishment of tyranny.

It's unfortunate, but I find few people understand this and it warps the gun ownership/control debates. The people's right to be armed is for one purpose only: to preserve the right to revolution. I think gun rights people like to use anecdotes about stopping home intruders and whatnot -- and that stuff is nice -- but that's all secondary.

> It's easy to write that off as some outlandish idea, or as some preposterous hypothetical but that ignores the lessons of history.

I think this is the major stumbling block when I try to explain why gun rights are important. In our time tyranny seems distant. When it happens, it's somewhere else, somebody else. I've sort of resigned myself to seeing the United States slip into tighter and tighter gun control. Then in November of 2064 or something the president will call off elections and declare himself emperor of the world as all us greybeards hang our heads and say we told you so.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#169

Post by cadalac »

Zelphyr wrote: post #150
msluyter wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that violent crime in America has actually been decreasing steadily since the 90s: http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/justice/us-violent-crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States Weird that we have we're getting more fearful and selfish, and more and more violent, and yet violent crime is going down. (Weird how these finger in the wind takes of the zeitgeist work...)

You can thank the media for that. Its not that the violence is increasing. As you say, it is the opposite in fact. But the amount we HEAR about violence is skyrocketing. So everyone, do yourselves a favor; STOP WATCHING THE NEWS! Stop reading it! It doesn't benefit you. Take it from a recovering news junkie. You won't miss it. You won't feel less informed. The important stuff will always make it to your eyes and ears…

I already follow your advice. I never read that stuff. Sometimes I go to Google News, and all I see is Murder, Rape, Shooting etc. Do you really think that's the "news" I'm looking for? Someone please start a news site startup that allows for custom filtering or something.

Re: Person with a long rifle and body armor in the Main Group Building of MIT

#170

Post by jbooth »

jackalope wrote: post #140
giardini wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just want to say as an American, I am so fed up with all these gun stories." Me too. But it won't end soon. Currently every shooting in every city is a candidate for promotion to a national media campaign that is focused on gaining additional restrictions on firearms, especially at the federal level (but also state level: Colorado is at this moment passing new highly-restrictive state firearms laws). Every opportu…

No. As a society, we became numb to gun violence to the point where the media stopped reporting it on the news. The Newtown shootings reminded us that the problem is real and pervasive enough that it demands a solution. Stories of gun violence are rightly reassuming a place at the top of the hour because of the horrible, devastating tragedies that they are. This isn't about a liberal agenda in conflict with a conserv…

Yeah, the amazing thing about this gun debate is that, given the drug war, I'm all prepared to punt on prohibition of anything not being worth it...

And then I listen to your average pro-gun advocate. Holy shit. Ok, I want everyone except for the average pro-gun advocate to be able to buy a gun.

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