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California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

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Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#161

Post by jibjaba »

gyardley wrote: post #131
jibjaba wrote: post #61

To me this is a symptom of the twisted politics around taxation in the US. You have one very powerful group that is continually fighting to lower or eliminate taxes and another somewhat less powerful group that wants to bring in enough tax money to fund government services. One side cuts taxes or refuses to raise them and the other side finds new things to tax or other taxes to raise. Normally such a tug of war is no…

They are refusing to provide the funds necessary to run what you think a modern government should do. Opinions differ.

Sorry, it's not what I think. I am basing my analysis on the many polls I have seen on what government services people expect. For example a large majority of people expect to have Medicare available to them when they turn 65. I am not talking about European style socialism.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#162

Post by illuminate »

pc86 wrote: post #148
rkowalick wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exact same argument the supporters of Ohio Senate Bill 5[1] used. One reason people in the public sector are willing to be paid less than their private counterparts is because their benefit plans are genuinely better. Saying they should eliminate one of the better benefits public sector employees get is stupid. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Senate_Bill_5_Voter_Refere...

First of all, I don't know about you, but I don't come to HN and try to have a somewhat intelligent conversation just to be called stupid for expressing an opinion. Secondly and to your point, I am only speaking of defined-benefit "If you work here for x years you get y% of your salary." This is to say nothing of the health care (which is generally better than the private sector), the hours (which if you don't work f…

"First of all, I don't know about you, but I don't come to HN and try to have a somewhat intelligent conversation just to be called stupid for expressing an opinion."

He didn't call you stupid for expressing an opinion, he called that particular view stupid.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#163

Post by jere »

legitsource wrote: post #3

I would not have thought that retroactive tax bills were legal. Are there any other common examples or is this a new precedent?

>No State shall... pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law#United_States

This situation was instigated by a successful lawsuit against the FTB. I wonder if another one is on the way. According to this, however, courts have ruled that retroactive tax laws are not considered ex post facto.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#164

Post by aaronblohowiak »

rosser wrote: post #143
w1ntermute wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some things about the US still surprise me. In "socialist Sweden" (as it's sometimes called) retroactive taxation is unconstitutional. The difference between the US and postage-stamp-sized European countries like Sweden is that there is great political and cultural variation between different parts of the US. California is chock full of socialists/liberals.

postage-stamp-sized European countries like Sweden At 174K mi^2, Sweden is larger than California's 164K mi^2.

Population-wise, Sweden is about the same as new york city.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#165

Post by w1ntermute »

msmith wrote: post #158
w1ntermute wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at the Great State of Texas. It is quite free when it comes to gun laws. For example, I believe it is the only state in which you are allowed to use lethal force to defend your property. And there's the added benefit that if you learn some basic Spanish, you can hire illegal immigrant labor to do all your housework and gardening for a pittance (this can be done without knowing Spanish, but then you end up…

More than half of the states in the Union have some sort of Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground law [1]. It's not just Texas. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law#United_St...

There's a difference between just having a Castle Doctrine and being allowed to use lethal force. Because if you are not allowed to use lethal force, you always have to worry about the consequences of killing the intruder.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#166

Post by natrius »

techsupporter wrote: post #136
bjcy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas isn't too shabby either. Plus, fewer natural disasters means less downtime.

Hopefully you aren't fond of electricity[0], water[1], schools[2], or roads[3]. 0 - http://www.ercot.com/news/press_releases/show/26375 1 - http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/DM_south.htm 2 - http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-budgets-call-for-cu... 3 - http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-polit... (Texas is my home state. I left, though I keep close ties to it through family and frequent visits.)

Electricity is being worked on, as that press release indicates. On the hottest day or two of the year, the power might go out for a little bit. It's not a big deal.

Water is going to be the biggest issue this legislative session. California has similar water problems.

Schools... are complicated. That one might not get fixed, but performance is better correlated with household income than education spending.

Roads are easy. Tolls. The people who use the roads pay for them.

Texas is my home state as well. I went to California for a few years, then came back. I don't plan on leaving.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#167

Post by w1ntermute »

rosser wrote: post #143
w1ntermute wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some things about the US still surprise me. In "socialist Sweden" (as it's sometimes called) retroactive taxation is unconstitutional. The difference between the US and postage-stamp-sized European countries like Sweden is that there is great political and cultural variation between different parts of the US. California is chock full of socialists/liberals.

postage-stamp-sized European countries like Sweden At 174K mi^2, Sweden is larger than California's 164K mi^2.

You're being intentionally obtuse. As is immediately apparent if you look at a population density map of Sweden[0], the vast majority of the population is concentrated in the southern part of the country.

0: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Swedishpo...

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#168

Post by run4yourlives »

refurb wrote: post #147
c1u wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"50% marginal tax rate started around $65k" I think your friend has very poor math skills. http://www.ey.com/CA/en/Services/Tax/Tax-Calculators-2012-Pe... $65K gross income in BC nets nearly $52K; a ~20% average tax rate. This is before any eligible deductions. Even if your friend was making $1,000,000 gross salary, they'd still pay less than 42% tax on average, and that's ignoring several legal tax shelters availabl…

Note, he said "marginal" not "overall" tax rate. Don't forget that BC has 12% sales tax and monthly premiums for health insurance. Income tax is only one of the many taxes.

BC has (or rather will return to) a variable sales tax that floats around 7% normally. There is also a 5% GST everywhere in Canada. (Like a VAT)

Correct on MSP (Medical Services Plan). Personally, I'd love to abolish this and roll it into general revenues. It's a nightmare.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#169

Post by nthj »

elliptic wrote: post #81
Osiris wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To other child post: FUD. What the heck does NY have to do with the federal constitution? It takes 3/4 of states to pass a new amendment, so it's not like NY can do it on it's own. The second amendment limits the federal government from passing certain kinds of laws.

Completely false. Like much of the rest of Bill of Rights, the second amendment has been incorporated (see Chicago vs McDonald), and thus held to apply to the states. It slightly irritates me when people say this, because usually those people have no problem accepting that other amendments that they hold to be more important (e.g, the 1st) apply to the states.

> It slightly irritates me when people say this, because usually those people have no problem accepting that other amendments that they hold to be more important (e.g, the 1st) apply to the states.

Heck, people try to apply the 1st amendment to private corporations & online forums set up by 14 year olds.

Re: California To Hit Startup Founders with Big Retroactive Tax Bills

#170

Post by MaysonL »

w1ntermute wrote: post #100
bjornsing wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things about the US still surprise me. In "socialist Sweden" (as it's sometimes called) retroactive taxation is unconstitutional. On the other hand capital gains is 20-30%, and most entrepreneurs actually have their gains taxed as income. That means you're lucky if you get to keep 13%. ;) I'm exaggerating a bit, but not much.

> Some things about the US still surprise me. In "socialist Sweden" (as it's sometimes called) retroactive taxation is unconstitutional. The difference between the US and postage-stamp-sized European countries like Sweden is that there is great political and cultural variation between different parts of the US. California is chock full of socialists/liberals.

Given that Sweden is about 10% larger than California, albeit with less than a third the population, it's hardly "postage-stamp-sized". Given that we elected Reagan, Schwarzenegger, and David Dreier, California's chock full o' wingnuts as well as socialists/liberals.
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