The Minimum Viable Kitchen • Hacker News Board

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#161

Post by w1ntermute » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:49 PM UTC

nollidge wrote: post #142

tptacek wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES. Recipes are a long-tail topic. The sites that do best in PageRank are the ones with the most recipes. The sites with the most recipes tend to either be overtly user-generated or slyly repackaged UGC. Moreover, as Patrick will explain, most people who search for prepared dishes aren't actually going to prepare them, which means Google has little incentive to ensure the tops of the SERPs are good. I'll find the eH…

Wondering what you mean by this: > most people who search for prepared dishes aren't actually going to prepare them

I think he means that people aren't searching for dishes to actually make them, but just to see pictures/reviews of them.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#162

Post by loevborg » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:50 PM UTC

pfranz wrote: post #128

When I first moved across the country and needed to build up my kitchen supplies from scratch I was quite lost. I think I generally followed this nytimes article and was very happy with the results: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/dining/09mini.html?pagewan... The nytimes author seems less fussy about things and imho has a better list for people who need a basic version of most often needed kitchen items. This pric…

I second the advice by Mark Bittman, the "minimalist". A small kitchen does not need a stand mixer (though a food processor is useful to make Indian food, among other things), and certainly not an ice-cream maker.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#163

Post by rdl » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:50 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #153

rdl wrote: post #37

There are a few cases on there where they mention something as the undisputed best in the high end, but you should get the cheaper thing, and they got the cheaper thing right 100% of the time, but either neglected another top option (which may be better in many ways), or actually didn't pick the top option. e.g. Demeyere is objectively better than All-Clad in every way except advertising spending. Shun Ken Onion is o…

I don't know where you get these opinions from, but I know it isn't Cook's Illustrated. And I don't know anywhere else to get well-tested opinions.

I find chow.com to be more accurate than CI.

Vitamix and Blend-Tec are both on par; I'd take either. (slight preference for vitamix, maybe?) I've never owned either, although I've used a vitamix at a military hospital; it was nice.

Demeyere is unquestionably better than All-Clad. It just has no distribution in the US (at least not until recently). All-Clad outspends everyone in sponsorships and marketing. "All-Clad is like Starbucks" comes up often.

Staub vs. Le Creuset has come up a bunch. Staub is certainly more durable (interior glaze, color change). Le Creuset has more colors outside, and more range. I have both (and Lodge), and agree about Staub > Le Creuset generally. Also, the stoneware crap from Le Creuset = hate. I hate it when premium brands come up with lower end stuff which is hard to distinguish. The worst is probably Kitchen-Aid; they had a bunch of Wal-Mart stand mixers which were visually indistinguishable and sucked.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#164

Post by tptacek » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:50 PM UTC

eumenides1 wrote: post #58

I think the post is great, but he made an assumption that wasn't stated and might cause all of us to disagree. He picked a cuisine without saying which one. A MVK will have different sets of equipment depending on the cuisine you choose. A Chinese kitchen will have a wok and a rice cooker, while a French kitchen will have things that you need to make bread. The most important thing is to choose a cuisine and stick to…

American kitchens should probably skip the wok even if they're making Chinese food, because woks are designed for a specific kind of cooktop and are outperformed by large sautee pans otherwise.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#165

Post by tptacek » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:51 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #155

tptacek wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have so much better luck with the stick blender for mayo and hollandaise that I actively avoid the standing blender for fat-based sauces. Ultimately, if you're not going to bake much and you're not going to make beverages a lot with it, I say ditch both the mixer and the blender and get a decent stick blender instead. A large straight-sided sautee does double duty as a skillet. Interesting how neither of us think t…

And use grapeseed oil! Expensive but amazing. I use my food processor occasionally. Pie crusts, etc. But most stuff I'd rather do in a Vitamix. I guess maybe I love my blender so much because I love soups and sorbets. And quiche. I use it probably at least twice weekly. And going through that cook book, there are a lot of things that call for it.

And holy shit we both forgot fish sauce. You can't call your kitchen viable without fish sauce!

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#166

Post by tptacek » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:51 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #161

nollidge wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wondering what you mean by this: > most people who search for prepared dishes aren't actually going to prepare them

I think he means that people aren't searching for dishes to actually make them, but just to see pictures/reviews of them.

Or to decide which dish they want to make, meaning, the recipe based on Hellman's mayo and a can of mushroom soup is the one that wins.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#167

Post by bhousel » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:54 PM UTC

eaurouge wrote: post #131

tptacek wrote: post #87

Notes: * Strong recommend on the Fibrox knife. If you don't already have a serious knife, don't buy one; get the Fibrox and use it for awhile. You may never want another knife, and if you ever do, you'll have a very good idea what you're looking for. Beware of knives: they're Veblen goods. * Don't get the expensive butcher block board. Actively avoid it. If you feel like arguing about this, you're not the reader this…

I'll add this to your list: - buy your All Clad pots at Bed, Bath & Beyond with a 20% off coupon Note: I haven't tried this in a some time; they may have discontinued it. You can get a coupon online, in the mail, on eBay...

Yeah, I've done the same thing with Calphalon. My wife and I also went to a Calphalon outlet store to complete our registry, and got some ridiculous deal. I don't remember the details, but I think we ended up saving like $500 because the people at the outlet store were nice and felt like giving us newlyweds the employee price.

Anyway, I guess my point is: don't pay full price for cookware, you can probably get it for less somehow.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#168

Post by w1ntermute » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:54 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #124

w1ntermute wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Internet is full of terrible cooking information, and if you don't have any authoritative sources at all, it's hard to separate the good from the bad. The internet is full of terrible information in general. That's why PageRank was invented. Is there something unique about cooking information that means PageRank won't work with it?

YES. Recipes are a long-tail topic. The sites that do best in PageRank are the ones with the most recipes. The sites with the most recipes tend to either be overtly user-generated or slyly repackaged UGC. Moreover, as Patrick will explain, most people who search for prepared dishes aren't actually going to prepare them, which means Google has little incentive to ensure the tops of the SERPs are good. I'll find the eH…

> YES. Recipes are a long-tail topic.

There are many (non-tech) long-tail topics that I've successfully searched for using Google, so I don't think this is a generalizable statement.

> The sites with the most recipes tend to either be overtly user-generated or slyly repackaged UGC.

I can't speak as to the average user, but I am usually able to easily ignore/sift through such sites. They pop up frequently in all kinds of searches these days, and is one of the clearest signs of Google's results going downhill.

That said, I have no personal experience looking for recipes online, as my cooking knowledge was largely learned from my mom, and I've had no reason to turn to any other sources so far.

> Another counterexample to your belief about the miracle of PageRank: try searching for symptoms some time.

When did I suggest that I believe that PageRank is miraculous? It has its pitfalls, just like any other algorithm.

And I've actually searched for symptoms several times and successfully self-diagnosed (confirmed later during a doctor's visit). So this example of yours doesn't hold up. My success there may have been swayed by my professional biomedical knowledge though.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#169

Post by tptacek » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:56 PM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #168

tptacek wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YES. Recipes are a long-tail topic. The sites that do best in PageRank are the ones with the most recipes. The sites with the most recipes tend to either be overtly user-generated or slyly repackaged UGC. Moreover, as Patrick will explain, most people who search for prepared dishes aren't actually going to prepare them, which means Google has little incentive to ensure the tops of the SERPs are good. I'll find the eH…

> YES. Recipes are a long-tail topic. There are many (non-tech) long-tail topics that I've successfully searched for using Google, so I don't think this is a generalizable statement. > The sites with the most recipes tend to either be overtly user-generated or slyly repackaged UGC. I can't speak as to the average user, but I am usually able to easily ignore/sift through such sites. They pop up frequently in all kinds…

I had a cold a few weeks back, and a coworker found me a search term that prominently featured cerebrospinal fluid leakage as a possible cause for runny nose. Just to establish how far apart you and I are on the usability of the Internet for this.

Re: The Minimum Viable Kitchen

#170

Post by tptacek » Thu, Jan 10, 2013, 9:58 PM UTC

pfranz wrote: post #143

w1ntermute wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Internet is full of terrible cooking information, and if you don't have any authoritative sources at all, it's hard to separate the good from the bad. The internet is full of terrible information in general. That's why PageRank was invented. Is there something unique about cooking information that means PageRank won't work with it?

There's a couple of issues specific to cooking and recipes that I feel are worse than other general information. Lots of home cooks and unvetted recipes use unsafe cooking practices--not cooking meat long enough or getting it hot enough (or storing things cold enough), it's common to gloss over or skip important steps, online recipes they can often leave out important details that would be caught by an editor. I reci…

Wow do I ever disagree on undercooking. American cooks have exactly the opposite problem, and the literature suggests our guidelines are way out of whack too.