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The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

thetariffcost.com

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Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#161

Post by mikrl »

ericmay wrote: post #105
footy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's set the framing correctly because I think we're starting off on the wrong foot. The US is not in a desperate need of any product from Canada. Nice to have and super important? Yea. Desperate? No. Not by any stretch of the imagination. aluminium, potash, and electricity are more than "nice to have"s

Yea but we can find other sources or just do with less if we had to just like any other country can. Remember when Russia invaded Ukraine? Did Europe figure out a way to do without Russian products? I'm not sure why folks seem to think the US can't also figure things out if it so choses.

> we can find other sources or just do with less

That kind of rhetoric is typically only employed when you’re in some great struggle, and the sacrifices made are supposed to be offset by a greater good.

In this trade war the struggle was completely avoidable and you chose it for yourself. Now you’re deploying the belt tightening home front rhetoric.

I’m going to be a little naughty and stop the constructive discourse to say: HOLY MOTHER OF COPE!

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#162

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ericmay wrote: post #81
epolanski wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don't forget the Greenland threats, those for us Europeans, and in European foreign affairs are a line of non return. Other administrations will not be able to repair the damage, because what was exposed really is that the US system allows for each administration to destroy and 180 whatever the previous one did.

They can be repaired - but if you think they can't be, then the US should act accordingly which would mean yea go ahead and take over Greenland, withdraw forces from Europe, &c. because as you say they can't be fixed so we might as well do whatever we think we want or need to do - that's the chain of reasoning that this theory of unrepairable relations sends us down. But we've had challenges and issues before. The US…

We're talking about different things. The French withdrawal from NATO unified command is a good example of what it means to say relationships can't just be repaired; it took 43 years to bring them back!

It's true that the news can overstate just how much things have changed. The US and Canada remain major trade partners and strong allies, with NORAD currently in the middle of a week-long joint exercise, and it's unlikely that's going to change. But you should not expect a return to friendly trade relations in 2029.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#163

Post by singpolyma3 »

davidw wrote: post #42
ericmay wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but since Canada is also initiating new tariffs (they've had existing ones for specific products and industries already) so anything said here applies to Canada as well. For example Canadian tariffs increase prices and their retaliatory tariffs also reduce demand for Canadian products leading to job losses.

They are willing to bear some pain in order to hit back at the US administration. And they're pretty united - Doug Ford for instance is not on the same team as Mark Carney - but has been very vocal about striking back. It's really a singular achievement to piss off such a good neighbor so badly.

And yet were still selling power to USA. Ford lost his right to an opinion when he decided to make noise about "Fighting" but refuses to do the only thing that could cause trouble

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#164

Post by throw0101a »

yostrovs wrote: post #127
Throaway826 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason the Dairy Supply quota is in place is to stop US dairy producers from dumping dairy into Canada. That's why the USA has never reached the tarriff limit. The big producers there would just dump 20 million litres at once if they could. They aren't interested in 1 or two. And if they were able to do that, the Canadian producers would go under. So its kinda simple, the Dairy Supply system is there to prot…

It follows then that the USA also wants to protect its industries, such as timber, oil and gas, and maple syrup, from Canadian producers that are happy to dump their stuff south of the border for cheaper than US competition.

> […] from Canadian producers that are happy to dump their stuff south of the border for cheaper than US competition.

The USD and CAD are not 1:1, as the CAD is 'lower value', so of course stuff made in Canada will generally be less expensive. (The trade off is that imports are more expensive for Canadians.)

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#165

Post by ericmay »

withinboredom wrote: post #160
ericmay wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I did. I thought you were accusing American companies (which they can be) of being oligarchies. You’ll have to forgive me, I’ve been doing the lord’s work defending the United States a bit here and trying to clear up confusion that others have with respect to trade.

I didn't know the US had royalty... You should consider moving to the EU if you want to do work for lords and ladies.

That doesn’t make any sense. But happy to answer any questions you may have!

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#166

Post by ericmay »

tensor wrote: post #156
ericmay wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I'll just get it from somewhere else" means you do need it. This isn't complicated logic. Right, it’s not complicated logic, so follow along. I didn’t say that America didn’t need these things. I said we aren’t desperate to get them from Canada. Big difference. > The fact that you hope you could get it from a brutal dictatorship instead of a democratic country doesn't change the fact that you do need things Canada…

> Ok, and then Canada needs things that the US has, as does the EU. Both Canada and the EU also have to get products and commodities from brutal dictatorships. This is a poor argument - what exactly are you trying to prove here? No, actually, we don't. If you are including "hypothetical future sources" which it seems you are, then Canada and EU can get everything they need from places other than the US. The only one…

Ok, and then the US can get everything it needs from non Canadian or EU sources, and then we can just get maybe lay a little more or find alternative sources where needed.

> Also no, Canada and the EU do not generally do a lot of trade with brutal dictatorships,

Still do trade though, even with Russia. Hell, the EU still lets in Russian tourists, hosts their billionaires, and their children. The EU trades massively with Russia, buys oil and other products from the Middle East, and more.

> unless you're trying to include the US in that category.

Well, no, because that would be stupid lol. The US isn’t a dictatorship by any definition. I’m close-minded to any statement or opinion to the contrary.

> At this point I have to assume you're a troll account.

Every accusation is a confession.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#167

Post by ericmay »

mikrl wrote: post #161
ericmay wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea but we can find other sources or just do with less if we had to just like any other country can. Remember when Russia invaded Ukraine? Did Europe figure out a way to do without Russian products? I'm not sure why folks seem to think the US can't also figure things out if it so choses.

> we can find other sources or just do with less That kind of rhetoric is typically only employed when you’re in some great struggle, and the sacrifices made are supposed to be offset by a greater good. In this trade war the struggle was completely avoidable and you chose it for yourself. Now you’re deploying the belt tightening home front rhetoric. I’m going to be a little naughty and stop the constructive discourse…

What is there to cope with? I’m not in favor of a trade war or anything, but if someone is going to claim we are desperate or make other claims that I believe to be sensationalist, wrong, or misleading I’ll just call them out. “Do this or else” always get an “else” from me, and I suspect the vast majority of Americans too.

By the way, this same logic applies to Canada. Why are they increasing prices of imported goods? There isn’t any great struggle going on here or greater good. And yes before you say “we are standing up to the US” we can say “we are standing up against trade practices we find unfair (regardless of their accuracy).

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#168

Post by ericmay »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #162
ericmay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can be repaired - but if you think they can't be, then the US should act accordingly which would mean yea go ahead and take over Greenland, withdraw forces from Europe, &c. because as you say they can't be fixed so we might as well do whatever we think we want or need to do - that's the chain of reasoning that this theory of unrepairable relations sends us down. But we've had challenges and issues before. The US…

We're talking about different things. The French withdrawal from NATO unified command is a good example of what it means to say relationships can't just be repaired; it took 43 years to bring them back! It's true that the news can overstate just how much things have changed. The US and Canada remain major trade partners and strong allies, with NORAD currently in the middle of a week-long joint exercise, and it's unli…

But they can be repaired. The OP claimed:

> Other administrations will not be able to repair the damage

So if you disagree with them you should reply to them and let them know the damage can be repaired.

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#169

Post by newsclues »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #69
declan_roberts wrote: post #52

Canada is very unfortunately caught in the trade war between the USA and China. It's pretty easy right now for certain goods to bypass the US tariffs by being transshipped through Canada and enter the USA without tariff because of minimal processing. Chinese steel is a notable example of this. And a lot of Canada's trade MOUs with other countries basically requires they have this special privilege. So there's gonna b…

> Canada is very unfortunately caught in the trade war between the USA and China Ottawa is fighting Anchluss . The MAGA wing is entirely serious about annexing Canada. Carney, for a change, is right. Canada is being attacked.

Canada is being attacked because it has become a (willing?) pawn for the CCP.

Ukraine was used as a pawn to anger Russia. What did Russia try to do and continue to do so?

Canada has been used as a pawn to threaten America by China, and Canada is trying to pivot from the USA to China?

Re: The Tariff Cost: analysis of the costs to Americans from new tariffs on Canada

#170

Post by EdwardDiego »

Throaway826 wrote: post #84
ericmay wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else shared this article [1] and I was reading a quote I thought was interesting: “[Canada] has a large dairy producing constituency that it wants to protect, so they put a cap on imports that can be accessed at a competitive rate. That's what we call a ‘TRQ’ (tariff rate quota),” says Becky Rasdall Vargas, senior vice president of trade and workforce policy at the International Dairy Foods Association. Under…

The main reason the Dairy Supply quota is in place is to stop US dairy producers from dumping dairy into Canada. That's why the USA has never reached the tarriff limit. The big producers there would just dump 20 million litres at once if they could. They aren't interested in 1 or two. And if they were able to do that, the Canadian producers would go under. So its kinda simple, the Dairy Supply system is there to prot…

The US has the same on dairy imports into the US for the same reason.
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