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Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

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Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#161
I think its hard to understand for people why some people bomb fish. It's mostly profound poverty.

The people want better for themselves, similar to people here. Since this is speaking about people in Sulawesi, they don't really have any money or work there. It's largely jungle, mining, farms.

I'll just give an example with some of the people i spend time with whenever I'm in Indonesia.

Eko lives in his village. He largely has no real job or work. He catches fish sometimes. Different ways. Sometimes with rod. Sometimes he shimmies an air tank with an air pipe underwater and spears them. He might get bends and die of the pains of it. I told him he shouldn't fish like that, but he still does it.

You see, Eko does crazy things because wants his two kids to live better than him. He wants them to live more like those folks in Jakarta, with air conditioning and sanitary toilets. Eko thinks his life isn't great, but he makes do with it. He largely does not have a vehicle besides a weak scooter, he brings his kids together with. His hut is poor, and he built it himself with concrete and bamboo. No electrical. He defecates into a hole toilet he learned to build from his friend. Sometimes he defecates into the river.

Eko's father died recently. The father likely died of poor treatment. The hospital is about 2 hours away in the main city. The hospital is poorly run. Its red lights make you feel ill; there is barely any materials or equipment.

Sometimes he thinks he needs to bomb something to get more fish. It doesn't ever get him enough money because he needs a lot more than he does get from it. Even if his wife works on her tobacco farm, there is very little at the end of the month. Maybe his kids will die too in that same hospital. Some of my friend's kids died in similar fashion last year. Maybe an earthquake will happen again, and all the stuff that they've been doing will just be burnt away.

Poverty. It's uh, quite bleak.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you read a lot into my comment that’s not there. I replied to someone who wrote “ Desperation is no excuse.” Developed countries are rich after centuries of extracting natural resources, to the point that Europe is nearly deforested, American rivers in the rust belt used to catch on fire from chemical pollution, and we destroyed a pacific atoll with over 20 nuclear bombs. A little rich for us to suddenly care…

Desperation is no excuse for anti-social behavior. I am calling out exactly that sentiment, because it removes the intelligence, agency, and morality from the people you’re discussing by reducing them to animals. You call them lessers and stop holding them to the same standard — and that so many did so here, despite poverty being unrelated, is precisely the evidence their motivation for doing so was racial stereotype…

Like I said, you're reading a lot more into what I wrote, than what I actually wrote. No one is more or less responsible for their actions on account of being Indonesian. And I've already agreed that in this case it appears not to be the result of desperate acts, but I am replying specifically on the point that "desperation is no excuse." Responsibility for most desperate situations begin way further upstream. I wonder if you hold your colleagues working at Meta to the same anti-social behavior standards, or yourself if you drive to work when taking the bus would only mean a few hours of inconvenience.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#163

It’s hard to believe this is real. Destroying a vibrant ecosystem for a one-time catch is so selfish and shortsighted it’s amazing to me that anyone would seriously consider doing it.

What's so hard to believe? Bomb fishing has been a common practice for decades. And poisoning fishing. And electrocuting fishing. Only first-world citizens would find these surprising in the slightest sense. The difference between the first world and the rest of the world is that the first world has more sympathy for the non-existing, abstract humans from the distant future.

And zero sympathy for the current starving if them not starving would even slightly inconvenience them.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#164
post #161

I think its hard to understand for people why some people bomb fish. It's mostly profound poverty. The people want better for themselves, similar to people here. Since this is speaking about people in Sulawesi, they don't really have any money or work there. It's largely jungle, mining, farms. I'll just give an example with some of the people i spend time with whenever I'm in Indonesia. Eko lives in his village. He l…

The article argues that attributing it solely to poverty is a mistake, and that because of several cost barriers it's more likely being done by middle-income fishers.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the American measurement units. How many bald eagles of explosives are needed to destroy three football fields worth of reef?

What a low value comment. In this case, a European football (soccer) field/pitch is reasonably close in size to an American football field. If the article had used square feet or acres, your comment might be more relevant. Google tells me that FIFA football pitch size is 105 meters long by 68 meters wide (7140 sq m). American football field size is 110 meters long by 53 meters wide (5830 sq m).

Soccer has no fixed pitch size, only upper and lower bounds on the width and height where the size must fall into

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#166

How did we get to loonie tunes levels of absurdity? I understand dragnet fishing is destructive, but who first decided that dynamite was a good fishing method?

Technically it is a good fishing method. It's quick, cheap, and effective. The damage that's done is mostly unseen by the people fishing.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#167
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote you're referring to came from the study's lead author, a Brit. Presumably he was referring to soccer (which everyone else calls "football"). Furthermore, a soccer field and an American football field are reasonably close in area, so it gets the point across in any case. However, I will now refer to explosives exclusively in units of Bald Eagles when referring to their mass, and "star spangles" when referrin…

Don't Brits usually call it a football pitch?

Football field and pitch are fairly interchangeable in the UK.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#168

I bet many of the people here moaning and whinging eat fish themselves!

What's the point of this post? if you're trying to shame people into vegetarianism it's not going to work, and I'm one myself. There's basically one solution to bomb fishing: make it economically nonviable. You could ban it an punish the people doing it, which is often the immediate action taken and seems like the path being set up here... but really any money spent on enforcement may be better spent on setting the b…

I'm not a veggie, but I do think bomb fishing is a horrific idea. Let alone commercially.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything beyond ascetic maximalism will be cast as greed to the naturists and malthusians. There's always someone out there who is going to make the argument.

There aren't many more reasons but greed to destroy ecosystems with bombs and detonators.

Laziness. There's another one.

Re: Bomb fishing is wreaking havoc on Indonesia's coral reefs

#170
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't Brits usually call it a football pitch?

Brits actually originally called it soccer. They changed to football at some point a while back. Maybe he's doing a super-throwback?

By analogy with another type of football, i.e. rugby football which was nicknamed rugger in the old days. Soccer was always a nickname, and association football the formal name.
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