Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

news.ycombinator.com

161–170 of 195 posts

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I ever wanted to do in this universe was fly airplanes. And I did it professionally for nearly 15 years. Then I got sick, and couldn’t do it anymore. Suddenly, all my skills were meaningless and unemployable. I got over it. But it took time. I reinvented myself - I had always liked writing code. So I pivoted to this and literally went back to grad school to study AI. I’m watching a lot of people right now flounde…

If all the pilots were affected, it would be a disaster, not one person's personal challenge. If you switch out "pilot" for something even more common/fundamental in the economy, like "tradesman", "scientist", or "software developer", it gets even more grim. You write as though you are enlightened, but in this light, your anecdote is selfish. It's selfish to apply your personal experience to the whole world with the…

You should just handle your situation. Though, not necessarily like I did, but handle it none the less. I am enlightened on this particular topic - one of the few in the world I'm qualified to viscerally understand. This is the second time I'm living it, and this time is far more fun because I'm less invested in the identity of "programmer" but it is still daunting.

Selfish? Maybe. What I see from a lot of people I talk to about this stuff is anger and frustration. So they lash out at the guy who says, "hey you can be mad, but you're still going to have to figure out your stuff." I can give advice, you're free to take it or not, but this is not a situation where there is a rule book. You're going to have to forge a new path - things are changing, and you will have to adapt or suffer the consequences of not adapting. There is no one person to blame for this problem (except for maybe yourselves if you were too invested in "dev" as an identity), there is no way to un-invent these tools. It's not going away.

"Just handle your situation" is the right answer here. That's what you're going to have to do anyway. When you get done blubbering about what could have been (and believe me, I did quite a bit of blubbering too), you'll eventually need to get up off your ass and do something in this changed world. I know that sucks, and I know it's not what you want to hear. But these are the facts on the ground right now.

I'm sorry this is happening to you guys (and I guess me twice), but I've been here before, I know what it is like. You can take the advice of a guy who's already been hiking a similar mountain for a few years, or you can say, "screw you man!" That's up to you, but I promise you that being angry will not halt AI coding agents or AI progress in general. You're going to have to adapt to the new world, and if you cannot adapt you are going to suffer more. How do I know? Because I fucking lived this already once.

Once you're done grieving, you can start to say, "oh, what are the new found opportunities in this world where I can't do $old_career?" If you need help along the way, I'm here, but you shouldn't expect me to abandon my lived experience with this stuff. It sucks to lose a career, but the faster you can let go of the old identity and forge a better one, the better you'll be for it.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#162
post #114

I thought I was the only one, so burnt out from software engineering I am glad to be out of a job. I am starting to have physical revulsion at the thought of it, and I have been dealing with the fact that I have even lost my fun time in front of the PC, playing games or browsing. These days I literally feel better doing the dishes than opening Steam or watching YouTube. If it’s only me, I can say it’s burnout and dep…

I had this experience and then it completely flipped after being out of work for chemotherapy. I was ready to leave software engineering for good, a complete career transition with the years of investment it would take. But in my time off, I've done my own coding projects and I've rediscovered my love for code. I realized it never left, what I grew to dislike is coding in a corporate environment. But coding for mysel…

Yes, I still have love for coding, but I only know how to make a living from it in a corporate environment, and I know deep in my bones I cannot muster the energy to work a normal job any more.

I have tried the solo entrepreneur route once, it didn't go very well but these days I figure it's hard to carve a niche selling software to people. I feel I'd have better chances in creative arts (game dev) than selling any other piece of software on my own; it's quite a frightening (and exciting) commitment to go down that path.

I have spent the last 3 months dilly dallying around this conundrum, and haven't made much progress. It's scary having to reinvent your career in your 40s.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#163
post #46

This is a form of ego death and should be taken seriously. Your/our place(s) in society have been shaken up like dice in a cup...and someone may not even care to pour them out and see what numbers come out. What are you like when no one is watching? Like any death, it will re-arrange your values. Fortunately existentialist philosophers have been grasping with this for some time. The secret is you have to make your ow…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#164

We have to adapt. This what happened to textile workers during Industrial Revolution. Satisfaction of crafting things disappeared once machines automated the work. I literally hesitated to code manually again because I've figured out how to drive this “creature” properly. It can do almost anything faster than me. (for production context). Upgrade toward sales and management ?. At least cover our basic daily needs, so…

All I ever wanted to do in this universe was fly airplanes. And I did it professionally for nearly 15 years. Then I got sick, and couldn’t do it anymore. Suddenly, all my skills were meaningless and unemployable. I got over it. But it took time. I reinvented myself - I had always liked writing code. So I pivoted to this and literally went back to grad school to study AI. I’m watching a lot of people right now flounde…

I think you're talking past what OP really meant. Millions of people change careers, and it usually isn't treated as a sign of failure or deficiency.

The effects they're talking about are not as shallow as finding employment in doing the same thing they initially expected to do. The reason so many people feel hollow, in addition to the job loss, is that the deployment of AI coincides with the accelerating hollowing-out and financialization of the world, especially the tech world. I don't think nearly as many people who still can be employed in tech would have such a big problem if they still felt like they were paid to solve problems and make things happen, even if indirectly. Instead what everyone is feeling, even many expert AI users, is that now everyone is increasingly working on creating the appearance of value, not actual value. Instead of serving customers, they make numbers look good to shareholders, hype up whatever they want to hear and line the pockets of people whose level of wealth they will never reach. The number of tech sub-fields where this isn't a theme is thinning by the day. So it goes much deeper than "I need to train for another job" - lots of people make that choice every day. By suggesting that these people need to study AI like you, you're telling them they need to accept the corporate system they hate. Become one with the financial interests.

I am your opposite. I started out by being enthusiastic about machine learning, I was fascinated by GPT-2 or image generation demos years before normal people found out about it. I saw the tech field as flawed, but good enough. And after all, back then engineers had a real value and a voice, they could push back and advocate for better technical solution, they still hadn't become the unvalued scavengers of "look what AI made for me" produced by people who have no idea what they're doing. Now that AI has pushed 80% of tech firmly into the "enriching the immensely wealthy and bringing about a dystopian world" paradigm, I'm looking to go back and do something that will actually benefit real people. Not any of the grass-is-greener farming fantasies people post about occasionally - I still like technology, I just want to use it for real, actual work. That's what OP and many others are probably feeling.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#165
post #12

I think one aspect of this relates to extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation. I'm intrinsically motivated to work on my software projects because I want them to exist, and I enjoy exploring the problem space and working my way to a good solution. AI is great because it accelerates my abilities in this regard. If I'd had only extrinsic motivations of credit and money, I can see that AI would affect them negatively. But I'd…

I am intrinsically motivated, but AI doesn't just accelerate, it changes the end product when used in the way we are forced by economics to use it: Broadly, and supported by tests rather than by looking at each line. Something I made is explicitly different from something somebody (or something) else made over which I merely acted as a manager. For my personal experience, that's a different end product - I know the a…

I agree with your second paragraph. I'm not blindly pro-AI, merely trying to make the best of a bad situation. I didn't mean to imply "if you don't like AI, then you only cared about the money" at all.

I'm trying to say if you don't want to do the work because you think anyone at all can do the same job with AI, then 1) you're probably underestimating yourself, and 2) maybe you care less about the work than about being on the other side of a moat of knowledge and experience. That moat is still there, and a large part of it is caring about the work.

(Also I agree that AI changes the end product if one doesn't read the code, but I don't agree that we are all necessarily forced by the economics to operate it that way. I still plan how to implement features myself first, without AI; I still read every line of code; and I still sometimes step in and rewrite the AI patch myself. I'm lucky not to have a boss breathing down my neck, I realise; at least that's true for the moment while my savings haven't run out.)

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#166
Software was a mirror of human science. It was a gradual accumulation of conserved code and useful components of software and architecture.

With AI, everything is one-off code, and removes the impetus to make software as a whole easier for future coding.

This is in an age when improving things should be monumentally easier.

But there's no open source reputation to be obtained now. No monetary gain from consulting on open source projects. No reason to open source closed source code because it might be useful to other programmers.

That means software stops improving

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I ever wanted to do in this universe was fly airplanes. And I did it professionally for nearly 15 years. Then I got sick, and couldn’t do it anymore. Suddenly, all my skills were meaningless and unemployable. I got over it. But it took time. I reinvented myself - I had always liked writing code. So I pivoted to this and literally went back to grad school to study AI. I’m watching a lot of people right now flounde…

I think you're talking past what OP really meant. Millions of people change careers, and it usually isn't treated as a sign of failure or deficiency. The effects they're talking about are not as shallow as finding employment in doing the same thing they initially expected to do. The reason so many people feel hollow, in addition to the job loss, is that the deployment of AI coincides with the accelerating hollowing-o…

I have never said they need to accept the "corporate system they hate" - I'm saying they need to adapt, and the genie is never going back into the bottle.

You can take my advice, or you can ignore it. Up to you, but what I see, from my limited perspective, is a lot of people grieving not being useful in the same way they used to be. They can adapt, or they can suffer. Not trying to be callous or whatever, but the sooner people stop making their identity about their careers the better.

And let's be real, 99% of code never created any real value in the world anyway. You think that the B2B SaaS dashboard you built for some company called Wankytottle was really valuable in any sense of the word? You don't have to accept "the system," especially now.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5.1. where are the alerts when a politicians takes a bribe or does insider trading?

>where are the alerts when a politicians takes a bribe or does insider trading? They're on the front page news. And no one (with the power to do anything) cares.

how about an internet torrent p2p style journalism to prove with tangible proof (pictures, videos, documents) instead of just news?

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#169
Yes, AI is eating the relevancy of non-AI stuff. Is that a bad thing, though? I imagine that, during the industrial revolution, all the farming concepts also became irrelevant for many.

The times are a-changing; what's relevant now is figuring out the most efficient uses of AI, and keeping up with how that evolves month to month. Big opportunities there for people who can stay flexible.

Re: Ask HN: Does anyone else feel like nothing matters anymore?

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're talking past what OP really meant. Millions of people change careers, and it usually isn't treated as a sign of failure or deficiency. The effects they're talking about are not as shallow as finding employment in doing the same thing they initially expected to do. The reason so many people feel hollow, in addition to the job loss, is that the deployment of AI coincides with the accelerating hollowing-o…

I have never said they need to accept the "corporate system they hate" - I'm saying they need to adapt, and the genie is never going back into the bottle. You can take my advice, or you can ignore it. Up to you, but what I see, from my limited perspective, is a lot of people grieving not being useful in the same way they used to be. They can adapt, or they can suffer. Not trying to be callous or whatever, but the soo…

Sorry, I assumed that accepting the system was what you advocated for given your example of moving to AI combined with the message of needing to adapt. It's a common argument used by AI advocates, that AI and all its consequences are the only way in all industries, and that everyone has a choice of either doing AI or dying (metaphorically or literally).

I explained why the grief that people feel isn't just tied to employment, but their overall perception of how the world is doing and what it's like to thrive in it. It's especially pertinent because OP isn't pushed out and trying to find something else to do - judging by the post, they're still in the game, still doing all the right AI things. They're just exhausted and questioning the meaning of it all.

I find these emotions to usually be the strongest for people who used to do something they saw as valuable in the past, but don't anymore - or at least people who thought that were satisfied by solving problems even if no one but them would ever appreciate the solution. The B2B SaaS webdevs and similar archetypical solvers of trivial low-value problems are the ones who love AI the most.

Post reply on HN