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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#161

Post by angry_octet »

_fw wrote: post #63
gspr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a guess, but I would think that a significant motivation for doing a trial is to ensure that the frog is boiled slowly . Opposition can now be met with "it's just a trial, relax". Then you expand the trial a bit. Keep running it until the discourse moves on. And then a few years down the line, when you roll out the full system and people complain, you can counter with "these people are exaggerating their concern…

There’s also transparency theatre here. “If it WAS part of a nefarious system, surely we wouldn’t be talking about it so openly?” It’s especially disappointing when the entire system is foiled by the balaclavas worn by so many of the country’s criminals every day anyway.

The obvious next step is to prevent entry if the face is covered. I'm curious to know how resistant the system is to face masks with a printed picture on the front (or indeed, the back).

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#162

Post by retube »

Lots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue?

Comments here seem like an ideological kneejerk response.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#164

Post by MC995 »

retube wrote: post #162

Lots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue? Comments here seem like an ideological kneejerk response.

> Lots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue?

This same argument would apply to Flock cameras, correct?

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#165

Post by [deleted] »

mattlondon wrote: post #157
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jean Charles de Menezes never got as far as being arrested. The police observed him enter an Underground station, followed him onto a tube train, and put seven bullets into his head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jean_Charles_de_Men...

Perhaps facial recognition would have saved him? It's not like humans are 100% accurate as this demonstrates

[deleted]

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#166

Post by asdff »

retube wrote: post #162

Lots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue? Comments here seem like an ideological kneejerk response.

You assume it will be used in good faith which is charitable. It doesn't even need to take an authoritarian regime to pervert this technology. Abusive police officers in the US for example use Flock to stalk ex girlfriends.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#167

Post by MC995 »

dofm wrote: post #123
constantius wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your understanding of 'proactively' might just be different from parent's (and mine). I'd agree that entities that provide their users' data upon a simple request, and a carveout in regulations that allows (not forces) them to do so, fits the definition of proactive.

Let's not get all Humpty Dumpty here. "Upon request" is reactive by definition. "Proactive" sharing would quite literally mean sharing on one's own initiative.

It's proactive in the sense that it's shared before a valid warrant is issued for the information, and before they have any reason to do so. But is reactive to any request at all, sure.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#168

Post by asdff »

i_am_a_peasant wrote: post #159

I’ve used the London underground. I wouldn’t let my kids go on it alone. I welcome this tbh. I don’t see what else they’re supposed to do other than have permanent guards on every wagon and every corner 24/7

I mean lets be honest if you are up to no good and there are facial scanners, you'd just throw on your n95 mask and black hoodie, maybe stick a pebble in your shoe, and then poof this tech no longer stops the bad guys.

There are also cases where law enforcement misuses this sort of technology to stalk romantic interests. So your kids could very well be stalked by a pervert in law enforcement more effectively with this technology.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#169

Post by andyjohnson0 »

mattlondon wrote: post #157
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jean Charles de Menezes never got as far as being arrested. The police observed him enter an Underground station, followed him onto a tube train, and put seven bullets into his head. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jean_Charles_de_Men...

Perhaps facial recognition would have saved him? It's not like humans are 100% accurate as this demonstrates

Or perhaps facial recognition would leave even less time for decision making.

Someone who's face resembles that of a known terrorist was detected entering the station 8 seconds ago. He's carrying a backpack and will be on a crowded platform in 37 seconds time. There are armed police in the ticket hall. What do you do? Only 31 seconds now...

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#170

Post by anigbrowl »

dofm wrote: post #103
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK stopped being a democracy a long time ago. In the UK if you keep your mouth shut during an investigation, it may harm your defense. There is zero right against self-incrimination. It is also the place where you can be jailed for not providing the PIN to your phone. I could go on.

> In the UK if you keep your mouth shut during an investigation, it may harm your defense. There is zero right against self-incrimination. By "may harm your defence" what is meant is that Miranda was modified to inform people who are arrested that magistrates and juries are fully allowed to infer that you might be seeking to mislead the court if you didn't tell the police something significant that you later rely on…

Miranda is an American case and has no relevance to UK law, the precedents aren't interchangeable.
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