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Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

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Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#161

Post by budsniffer952 »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #138
mettamage wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much for a good faith discussion here. I don't appreciate that you tell me to "get a grip". You're not steelmanning. Instead, your reaction comes off as a knee jerk reaction. There are enough communities where I have to come up with defenses to deal with that nonsense. Don't do it here please. US melatonin measured dosage can be 4x as much as what is reported [1, 2]. Also 0.3 mg is the recommended dose [4]. A lot…

(referring to melatonin) yeah this is valid. I used to take melatonin every night, found out about the problems with us supply, couldn't find anything nearing 1/2 mg, and gave up. I took kids gummies for a few weeks, but I still think they were 1mg.

It's completely invalid. Small dose melatonin is all over Amazon and iHerb.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#162

Post by tedggh »

mettamage wrote: post #80
koliber wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a while back that our brains produce roughly 0.3 mg of melatonin when signaling us to go to sleep. When I occasionally do use melatonin I split a 1mg pill into half or thirds. I find that it works well enough to help me fall asleep. Wondering how the study would look if hwy used 1/2 mg doses.

Go to the Netherlands, to the Kruidvat (or Etos or something similar) and just buy a lifetime worth of supply of Melatonin. It's 0.1 mg. I'm Dutch and live here. But my wife is American. If I ever happen to live in the US (chances are there in my lifetime). I'm going to employ this strategy. I don't trust the US with this and the Netherlands has proven itself to me in this sense. There are probably many more European…

Drugs are regulated with the same care in the US, the problem is you are comparing a drug in Europe with a dietary supplement in the US. You can’t expect to grab a high quality of any dietary supplement from say Walmart. It’s the same in Europe. In the US there are labs making high quality dietary supplements, but you usually don’t find them at retail stores or even Amazon, so it needs a bit of research.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#163

Post by avesi »

In holistic circles, people swear by magnesium. Magnesium glycinate in particular has worked really well for me. It makes sense, because magnesium is a co-factor for converting tryptophan into serotonin, which is turned into the hormone melatonin. So, you could try supporting your body's natural production of sleep hormones by ensuring you have enough available tryptophan and magnesium in your diet.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#164

Post by Palomides »

HexPhantom wrote: post #38
hinkley wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long ago when I paid attention to this, the wisdom was to watch out because most melatonin pills are targeted to geriatric patients. Old folks need a significant boost to their melatonin to deal with eroding sleep quality, not a little hit of it. So as a 30 year old or younger you want a fraction of what grandad is taking.

You'd expect the standard OTC dose to be a sensible starting point, not potentially several times more than a younger person needs

it's sold in the US as a more or less unregulated supplement, so not surprising to me that the dosing is nonsense

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#165

Post by jijijijij »

siren2026 wrote: post #96
andrepd wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silly to say that "Europe" has substantially different working hours for the majority of the population, compared to the US. Grindset hustle sigma influencers are an outlier of course.

For having lived in both continents, American is generally an early morning culture and Europe is generally an evening culture. There are local differences within the continents of course.

Don't know about the US, but isn't it "9to5" there too? Is there much "culture" before 9?

I can say in Germany "9to..." is also applying to cafes, supermarkets, ... pretty much nothing is open before 8 in the morning (with the exception of stuff in train stations), even some supermarkets only open at 9. So there certainly is no "culture" earlier than that. School often starts at 8, so parents frequently start the day at 6 or earlier. Same if you got an hour commuting time etc.. I don't know anybody who would wake up at 4 by choice, tho.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#166

Post by mrcode007 »

budsniffer952 wrote: post #161
_dark_matter_ wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(referring to melatonin) yeah this is valid. I used to take melatonin every night, found out about the problems with us supply, couldn't find anything nearing 1/2 mg, and gave up. I took kids gummies for a few weeks, but I still think they were 1mg.

It's completely invalid. Small dose melatonin is all over Amazon and iHerb.

Share a link to 0.1 dose product please

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#167

Post by epihelix »

huehehue wrote: post #143
hackable_sand wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better sleep than what? Humans have been sleeping for at least 400 years

I get what you're saying, but let's not pretend the modern world isn't meaningfully different. Artificial light is a big factor, yes. So are odd and constantly changing work hours from a world that now operates 24/7. So is the common expectation of monophasic sleep in general. So is travel and jet lag that we now have to endure, and dietary changes, and stimulants especially for folks who just don't even have 8 unint…

I suspect their point was that optimising sleep is relatively simple. Go to bed in a timely manner, keep your bedroom cool, use blackout blinds and sunrise lamps. Don't drink caffeine in the afternoon or evening. It's not rocket science.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#168

Post by iluvcommunism »

avesi wrote: post #163

In holistic circles, people swear by magnesium. Magnesium glycinate in particular has worked really well for me. It makes sense, because magnesium is a co-factor for converting tryptophan into serotonin, which is turned into the hormone melatonin. So, you could try supporting your body's natural production of sleep hormones by ensuring you have enough available tryptophan and magnesium in your diet.

[dead]

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#169

Post by hattmall »

tedggh wrote: post #162
mettamage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the Netherlands, to the Kruidvat (or Etos or something similar) and just buy a lifetime worth of supply of Melatonin. It's 0.1 mg. I'm Dutch and live here. But my wife is American. If I ever happen to live in the US (chances are there in my lifetime). I'm going to employ this strategy. I don't trust the US with this and the Netherlands has proven itself to me in this sense. There are probably many more European…

Drugs are regulated with the same care in the US, the problem is you are comparing a drug in Europe with a dietary supplement in the US. You can’t expect to grab a high quality of any dietary supplement from say Walmart. It’s the same in Europe. In the US there are labs making high quality dietary supplements, but you usually don’t find them at retail stores or even Amazon, so it needs a bit of research.

If they aren't sold in retail stores or Amazon how are they sold? Private websites?

Amazon requires random sampling confirmation for supplements from independent labs though, so anything officially listed in a supplement category should be reliable.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#170

Post by hackable_sand »

63stack wrote: post #154
hackable_sand wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better sleep than what? Humans have been sleeping for at least 400 years

Are you sceptical if people have slept before 1600, or what's with the "at least?"

Conservative estimate
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