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DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

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Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#161

Post by ignoramous »

telotortium wrote: post #125
dyauspitr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for long, Deepseek is saying they will have a significant price jump soon. They really shouldn’t do it because they are on the cusp of capturing the scalable API market.

They need to be able to serve their market. The price increase is partly load shedding. If they improve their ability to serve their load, they can always drop it again, as OpenAI did with Luna recently.

> as OpenAI did with Luna recently

My read is, OpenAI is neither able to claw b2b money (away from Ant) nor are they able to stave off open weights on the other. In short, they're struggling to hold onto their distant #2 position in the coding market, and these pricing changes reflect a (desperate) change in strategy.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#162

Post by abixb »

LaurensBER wrote: post #9

I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day. OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so fo…

If what you're saying is true and accurate, then US-based AI labs are in big trouble. The only saving grace might be some sort of a 'national security' proclamation banning the use of state-of-the-art Chinese (and non-US) models across US federal and state governments and large enterprises (especially ones with federal government contracts), but even still, US AI labs will probably lose out massively on international market if a smaller model can match SOTA of just a few months ago.

There's no way large companies outside the US will pay the "US AI lab" premium if they can get the same workloads done at a fraction of the cost using open-weight models that they can self-host and optimize/fine-tune on.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#163

Post by bee_rider »

cyanydeez wrote: post #111
MarkLowenstein wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real question: is there anybody that is both maintaining alpha-dev capability by keeping abreast of all these daily changes, while also reserving enough time to actually work? Seems like we've reached the event horizon of whether AI advances are worth paying attention to.

Are you saying we've reached peak Bike shedding?

How about: The yaks have started shaving themselves, who can keep track of how good a job they are doing?

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#164

Post by ak_t »

Note this is the 07/31 release of DSv4 flash and not the "preview" that they put out a couple months or so ago.

I've been running this model locally for a week, and the preview version before that. This updated one feels like a whole tier up. It's very capable for debugging and analyzing documents/data I upload.

The killer feature, IMO, is the speed. On 2x RTX Pro 6000 Blackwell, its ~8k tok/s prefill and ~250 tok/s on a single stream. I saw 1000 tok/s with ~64 concurrent streams on vLLM.

That's fast enough that you can interactively chat with it without switching tabs while you wait, and its a ~300B (13B active, hence the speed) model so the responses are also very good. It's actually more convenient now for me to direct 95%+ of my day to day usage to my local model, and only use Claude Fable for really big coding tasks.

Until this model was released, I was contemplating spending even more money on hardware to run GLM5.2 (~750B) at reasonable speeds, but I no longer feel that need. This is smart enough, and I think it only gets much better for local models from here.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#165

Post by surgical_fire »

paxys wrote: post #118
LaurensBER wrote: post #9

I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day. OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so fo…

How is $5/day irrelevant? In the $150/mo range you can get effectively unlimited usage of GPT 5.6 Sol (Pro plan). Why use a much weaker model for the same price?

$5 a day is pretty extreme in DeepSeek. You really have to abuse it to get anywhere close to it. Maybe something in around hundreds of millions of tokens per day, considering cache hits and all.

And to be frank, it is not that much weaker for regular software development work. I use Claude at work and I see no difference in capability. I only notice a dramatic difference in how much more expensive it is.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#166

Post by darkwater »

brynnbee wrote: post #158
paxys wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is $5/day irrelevant? In the $150/mo range you can get effectively unlimited usage of GPT 5.6 Sol (Pro plan). Why use a much weaker model for the same price?

Others have said similar but I disagree, I'm spending $200/m and I can easily burn through my weekly quota with a few overnight goals using 5.6 medium.

And what do you do with all that?

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#167

Post by vb-8448 »

modeless wrote: post #115
vb-8448 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's open weight, there are plenty providers on open router that are serving the latest v4 flash at 0.14/0.28 $.

This would be more convincing if those providers had converged on a number that was not the exact pricing of DeepSeek themselves. Clearly DeepSeek is setting the price here and without them holding it down I expect increases.

Non necessarily, they can easily increase market share by staying where they are.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#168

Post by ComplexSystems »

abixb wrote: post #162
LaurensBER wrote: post #9

I've been using it extensively since the release and the best summary I can give is that it's good enough to use it for (almost) everything and cheap enough that the cost are irrelevant. I'm running it in Oh My Pi with a second instance running as "advisor" and even with 5-6 active sessions (effectively 12 streams) I'm struggling to spend more than 5 bucks per day. OpenCode Go even has double limits temporarily so fo…

If what you're saying is true and accurate, then US-based AI labs are in big trouble. The only saving grace might be some sort of a 'national security' proclamation banning the use of state-of-the-art Chinese (and non-US) models across US federal and state governments and large enterprises (especially ones with federal government contracts), but even still, US AI labs will probably lose out massively on international…

It is true. I don't care about having infinite frontier-level intelligence, and I don't care if Fable can one-shot frobnicate a klaxelzorp with a benchmark performance of 97%. I doubt most people do, in fact. I just want something that meets the baseline level of intelligence needed to be a really, really good pair programming agent. It shouldn't have any silly dealbreaker issues involving laziness or hallucinations, it should be smart enough to bounce ideas off of, and it should automate doing tedious boilerplate. And - most of all - I want to be able to afford using it as much as I want. That's what has happened here.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#169

Post by surgical_fire »

andai wrote: post #148

The recently announced they're raising their prices 10x right? Which would put them... exactly where everyone else is on this graph. Edit: I seem to have misunderstood the news. I thought the magical cache read pricing was going away (0.002) and they were going to be on par with everyone else (0.02). But I have no idea. Edit 2: Apparently, neither do they! >We plan to raise the overall pricing for DeepSeek API servic…

> The recently announced they're raising their prices 10x right?

No.

They sent an email to customers saying that they will raise prices "significantly".

How much that will be is speculation.

My guess is that they will just remove the 75% discount they gave when they released V4 preview. It will still be relatively cheap even at 4x the current price.

Re: DeepSeek V4 Flash 0731

#170

Post by abixb »

ComplexSystems wrote: post #168
abixb wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you're saying is true and accurate, then US-based AI labs are in big trouble. The only saving grace might be some sort of a 'national security' proclamation banning the use of state-of-the-art Chinese (and non-US) models across US federal and state governments and large enterprises (especially ones with federal government contracts), but even still, US AI labs will probably lose out massively on international…

It is true. I don't care about having infinite frontier-level intelligence, and I don't care if Fable can one-shot frobnicate a klaxelzorp with a benchmark performance of 97%. I doubt most people do, in fact. I just want something that meets the baseline level of intelligence needed to be a really, really good pair programming agent. It shouldn't have any silly dealbreaker issues involving laziness or hallucinations,…

I wonder when we crossed the "99 percentile of intelligence for 99% of the usecases" threshold. At this point, the gains seem to be right at the very edge of bleeding edge for narrow and specialized use cases, and wonder if it'll be a sort of diminishing return from here on.
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