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Seedance 2.5

seed.bytedance.com

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Re: Seedance 2.5

#161

Post by rudolftheone »

echelon wrote: post #138
JimsonYang wrote: post #119

Fyi based on what people are saying on twitter, seedance 2.5 is ~2x as expensive. For a 30 second generation at dreamina it costs 1440 credits or around $15

Which is next to nothing compared to the cost of a movie, animated TV show, or quality YouTube video.

Wait, but you compare the cost of animated show or a movie which is in its final, acceptable quality!

The cost of that $15 per 30sec is NOT FINAL - you'll pretty much end up deciding you want another take - either due to some inconsistencies, non-physical movements, or anything else, which screams "that's fake".

So the cost is most probably much higher; how much higher? We don't really know, as there are virtually no acceptable shows created by that tool yet (until there is something I don't know about).

Re: Seedance 2.5

#162

Post by galkk »

Keyframe wrote: post #23

You know what, in my previous life as a filmmaker I could've only dreamed of such a thing. Filmmaking is an art form which you cannot do alone. Outside of a lot of time and money, you need cooperation of a number of people and each day of production you end up accumulating a set of compromises to your vision. Your taste is what makes you tolerate that or not, and it's exhausting. It matters if you're the author since…

I am not a film maker but I had some sketches on my head that I always wanted to try to make. Even Gemini scratched the itch for me, and my folder “projects” is growing with other ideas that I’d like to sketch

Re: Seedance 2.5

#163

Post by galkk »

cautiouscat wrote: post #99
Keyframe wrote: post #23

You know what, in my previous life as a filmmaker I could've only dreamed of such a thing. Filmmaking is an art form which you cannot do alone. Outside of a lot of time and money, you need cooperation of a number of people and each day of production you end up accumulating a set of compromises to your vision. Your taste is what makes you tolerate that or not, and it's exhausting. It matters if you're the author since…

I think for me it's just missing the "essence". Making a film is hard, but that labor with multiple people who are passionate about the project is just as important as the end result. I've been trying to generate concept art for a game idea. I figure, I can't draw so why not have something else bring my vision to life. After dozens of failed attempts and burned tokens I decided to just hire someone. The experience wa…

This is the same level of arguing that only painting is the real art and photography is just clicking the button

Re: Seedance 2.5

#164

Post by globular-toast »

dotancohen wrote: post #140
neom wrote: post #46

There is a woman on twitter who makes seedance videos of her and Dario from anthropic, they're kinda weird but generally pretty high quality: https://x.com/CuiMao/status/2058458683781365873 (full collection: https://x.com/CuiMao/status/2082740754380984373 ) - seeing them was the first time I'd been impressed with AI video gen.

For first of us without twitter: https://xcancel.com/CuiMao/status/2058458683781365873 I can not believe how good the AI video has gotten. In one spot the written letters were obvious AI. Other than that - I couldn't find a thing.

There were tons of continuity errors, but I suppose bad film makers make those too and often get away with it. The worst was the gift that was boxed in one shot, then open and containing a gift that didn't fit in the box. Another more subtle one was after they bumped into each other they were standing in front of a wall suggesting she just ran out from the wall.

Re: Seedance 2.5

#165

Post by galkk »

zmmmmm wrote: post #31
Keyframe wrote: post #23

You know what, in my previous life as a filmmaker I could've only dreamed of such a thing. Filmmaking is an art form which you cannot do alone. Outside of a lot of time and money, you need cooperation of a number of people and each day of production you end up accumulating a set of compromises to your vision. Your taste is what makes you tolerate that or not, and it's exhausting. It matters if you're the author since…

The thing is, it has the same essential property that you don't control it any more. The problem with these tools is the lack of fine grained control means there is no room for you to express your individual creative input. Your total input is a few sentences of a prompt, then the AI did all the creative part. If the creative input is what you enjoyed, it is actually not that much more (or even less) here than it was…

It will change soon. Ai is enabler. Again, as with photography and especially digital photography- everybody can click button but not everybody is photographer. Ai helps to raise the floor, not the ceiling

Re: Seedance 2.5

#166

Post by galkk »

prodigycorp wrote: post #35
zmmmmm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it has the same essential property that you don't control it any more. The problem with these tools is the lack of fine grained control means there is no room for you to express your individual creative input. Your total input is a few sentences of a prompt, then the AI did all the creative part. If the creative input is what you enjoyed, it is actually not that much more (or even less) here than it was…

This is a matter of effort and direction and not an inherent flaw of the tools. Look at Apple's recent image tools to change perspective. Tools to improve artistry are improving.

Could you tell more? Is it new iOS features?

Re: Seedance 2.5

#167

Post by galkk »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #155
markfsharp wrote: post #17

Yes, it is awesome. Funny we got this level of capability now and we all take it in our stride. Growing up in the 80's I loved futuristic scifi, feels like I am in it now. And even I am 'just' taking it in my stride.

Speaking of the eighties, special effects were still done without CGI and typically on the cheap. That didn't make the movies and television series any less fun to watch. In the end it's about what people do with the tools, not the quality of the tools. People commenting on how these generated videos are not perfect or are getting some details wrong, look at some blockbuster movies from last century. It's very easy t…

> That didn't make the movies and television series any less fun to watch.

Unfortunately it doesn’t apply to everybody :( Babylon 5 was mind blowing when I was a kid, and today the space and other sci fi parts from there, when I see them on YouTube, are quite cringe. Show is still great, but that’s the part where I’d be totally fine if some modern consistent ai re-rendered cgi to something more pleasant.

Re: Seedance 2.5

#168

Post by konart »

neom wrote: post #46

There is a woman on twitter who makes seedance videos of her and Dario from anthropic, they're kinda weird but generally pretty high quality: https://x.com/CuiMao/status/2058458683781365873 (full collection: https://x.com/CuiMao/status/2082740754380984373 ) - seeing them was the first time I'd been impressed with AI video gen.

The whole damm Makoto Shinkai based dorama style too!

This is blessed and cursed timeline at the same time.

Re: Seedance 2.5

#169

Post by userbinator »

rudolftheone wrote: post #161
echelon wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is next to nothing compared to the cost of a movie, animated TV show, or quality YouTube video.

Wait, but you compare the cost of animated show or a movie which is in its final, acceptable quality! The cost of that $15 per 30sec is NOT FINAL - you'll pretty much end up deciding you want another take - either due to some inconsistencies, non-physical movements, or anything else, which screams "that's fake". So the cost is most probably much higher; how much higher? We don't really know, as there are virtually no…

My experience with AI image generation is---

If you want something vague and generic and don't particularly care about the details, then maybe you can get want you want on the first try, but you'll likely just get what everyone would call "slop".

If you have something very specific in mind, then expect to spend several dozen generations before you get what you want, or something close to it, and then you may still have to spend more time making final adjustments manually in an image editor.

...and this is just for one image. I have not tried AI video production yet but I imagine it would involve considerably more effort.

$15/30s is $1800/hr, so assuming 1/10 generations are good, that's $18000/hr for final content. A few orders of magnitude below professional movies for sure, but still not trivial.

Re: Seedance 2.5

#170

Post by JimsonYang »

galkk wrote: post #156
JimsonYang wrote: post #119

Fyi based on what people are saying on twitter, seedance 2.5 is ~2x as expensive. For a 30 second generation at dreamina it costs 1440 credits or around $15

Which might mean a lot for individual but is peanuts for a business

I was trying to get at that its 2x more expensive for businesses, and personally I dont think 2.5 is worth double the variable cost. At least initially
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