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Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

abc.net.au

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Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#161

Post by wasfgwp »

moomoo11 wrote: post #152
wasfgwp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s not very tasty? Also hoper processed foods “infused” with nutrients don’t sound very appealing.. Most people (in western countries at least) don’t really optimize their food in take this way or want to maximize the amount of protein per $

true i mean i do think most people don’t care at all about climate change or the environment. i also dont care for most people besides those i love family and friends, or people like employees or colleagues. animal ag is a huge climate factor there plus we destroy ecosystems to murder the ocean floor. ultimately i don’t eat meat bc of the climat aspect (and it’s better for my health i want to live long) but since peo…

I have no problem eating meat as long as people are driving F350 and using private jets. So who should go first and why is it not the ultra rich?

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#162

Post by pvaldes »

ted_dunning wrote: post #160
pvaldes wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, another could be to increase the populations of wild salmon Dumber here is a feature, not a bug. The dumber the farmed escaped salmons are, the better. Imagine 10 wild salmons swimming up the river to reproduce, 8 of then are devoured by bears. Only Rick and Jenny survive. Now imagine the same salmons swimming up the river to reproduce, but joined by 40 farmed sterile salmons. And 8 of them are devoured by bears…

The problem with this logic is that if 80% of the salmon in the water are sterile, then the probably of a fruitful mating is only 20% of the previous rate. For most wild populations, this is cataclysmically bad. It works on screw worm flies. It will have a similar effect on wild salmon.

Philosophy is about logic, Science is about hypotheses. Salmon male sneak near couples mating, but first you need this extra male to survive to be able to do that

What I mean is that Biology is not simple. Things that you assume to be bad, may have also a positive side. You will never know until you do actual research and, unlike that five minutes read in a newspaper, finding the truth takes years of serious work.

Unless you spend many hours studying, you may never notice that 'kelp' forests are changing even in places without salmon farms. Without a single salmon farm, Spain lose 90% of their "kelp" (in fact Laminaria) forests in the 1990's. So maybe there are other hidden reasons for the change?

After years the ecologists understood that the problem with kelp was the sea temperature raising just one degree. This was enough to lose thousands of Km of submarine forests around all the North coast of Spain in just a decade. A good example of collapse of the entire ecosystem after minor changes.

Without spending hours studying, you may not realize that kelp war against green algae lasts for millions of years. Kelp evolved to be one of the fastest growing things alive and to build chemical defenses. If algae has the upper side suddenly, maybe there is more to see than the simple answer of "is contamination". What prevents kelp to use all this extra nutrients to grow instead?

Biodiversity is the biggest and more complex machine built in this planet, and tends to do unexpected things. Ideas like "monogamy: good", "cannibalism: bad" are useless in biology. Biology does not care about moral stances or tables of the law, and not always act as ideology would wish

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#163

Post by stymaar »

jurgenburgen wrote: post #131
wasfgwp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because fish farms are generally stationary?

Is it not possible to build a floating farm in international waters?

I don't know, but being stationary in deep water isn't trivial task. You can't just drop an anchor when you have 3000-4000m of depth below your feet.

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#164

Post by moomoo11 »

wasfgwp wrote: post #161
moomoo11 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

true i mean i do think most people don’t care at all about climate change or the environment. i also dont care for most people besides those i love family and friends, or people like employees or colleagues. animal ag is a huge climate factor there plus we destroy ecosystems to murder the ocean floor. ultimately i don’t eat meat bc of the climat aspect (and it’s better for my health i want to live long) but since peo…

I have no problem eating meat as long as people are driving F350 and using private jets. So who should go first and why is it not the ultra rich?

i don't really care about anyone besides myself, my family, close friends, and my employees.

Re: Norway became a global salmon behemoth. Now it's facing the consequences

#165

Post by mmaunder »

scns wrote: post #99
concrete_head wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant tuna not salmon. A large tuna can be 100's of kilograms, whereas a large salmon you are lucky if there is 10kg of edible meat

GP was talking about the story from the bible.

And I was comparing salmon farms to cattle feed lots in the USA, not saying “salmon feed many”. Wow that got hilariously off track.
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