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What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

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Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#161

Isn't that expected? I always assumed the agent owns (at least) the current workspace (whatever dir it's launched in) and so can do whatever it wants in there. If they actually use this try and do things in the backend and saving prompt RTTs and tool calls that would be in my interest, no?

AFAIK, Cursor does some kind of indexing locally. So they don't have to upload all files, but can still search through them in order to find the relevant _parts_ that they upload so that the model can use them.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#162
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your mechanism for doing this?

I use bubblewrap to unshare all namespaces (net, pid, ipc, user) and ro-bind necessary system paths like /etc, /lib, create a tmpfs home, mount the project folder under it (writable), then mount tmpfs over sensitive directories inside the project to hide them. For the network part, a daemon outside the sandbox serves a filtering HTTP proxy on a Unix socket. I mount the Unix socket into the sandbox and bridge it to lo…

> I mount the Unix socket into the sandbox and bridge it to localhost with socat

I was experimenting with network sandboxing and found a solution that doesn't require an agent inside a sandbox. You can create listening socket on localhost inside the sandbox, send it over the Unix socket to the supervisor outside and close the Unix socket. The supervisor outside now has a listening socket that accepts connections from inside. No socat needed.

My setup was more complicated though, I wanted transparent proxying (intercepting every TCP/UDP connection without having to specify a proxy) and I spent 2 nights fighting with lack of documentation on netfilter. For TCP I ended up with creating a listening socket with IP_TRANSPARENT options and tproxy'ing all traffic into it using nftables. It was easy part. The difficult part was to figure out how to intercept UDP datagrams and send replies with correct sender address. I ended up creating IP_TRANSPARENT listening UDP socket to receive datagrams, and raw IP socket to send replies with forged source address (because single UDP socket doesn't allow sending datagrams from arbitrary port number).

ChatGPT was pretty much useless, probably due to lack of documentation and I had to experiment myself.

I still do not have the supervisor done though, that would decide whether to allow or block a connection. I have the following idea: whenever the target makes a DNS request, I reply with a new IP address like 10.x.x.x. So I can have a map which maps every IP address to a domain, and when a program connects to an IP, I can figure out which domain it is and decide whether allow or block it. This is necessary because there might be multiple IPs for a domain, they can change in time, so it is better to have a persistent mapping, to protect from DNS rebinding attacks.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#163

"It uploads the whole repository — every tracked file's content plus git history — independent of what the agent reads" Holy cow!!!! I mean I kinda expected Elon would do something like this to try to catch-up.. but this is extremely concerning. This is precisely the reason, even though their pricing is competitive and grok-4.5 is actually good enough, I chose not to go with them.

it's straight up data exfiltration and should be illegal

> and should be illegal

It almost certainly already is, at least in some jurisdictions for some forms of data. GDPR, HIPAA, CCPA, biometric privacy, et cetera almost certainly will find claws into this behaviour.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#164
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can say that with absolute certainty, so obviously not. And since you presumably knew that already (as it is basic infosec) then yes it is spicy, or simply antagonistic.

If we lower the threshold from "absolutely" to "absent third-party breaches" what would you say?

> If we lower the threshold from "absolutely" to "absent third-party breaches" what would you say?

If anyone answered that question affirmatively, I'd lose a massive amount of trust in them. It would betray they fundamentally misunderstand the stochastic nature of playing defense.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#165

"It uploads the whole repository — every tracked file's content plus git history — independent of what the agent reads" Holy cow!!!! I mean I kinda expected Elon would do something like this to try to catch-up.. but this is extremely concerning. This is precisely the reason, even though their pricing is competitive and grok-4.5 is actually good enough, I chose not to go with them.

Race to the bottom.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#166
The first item is "a file in the repository which contains secrets was read by the model".

Well yeah, obviously, that's pretty much intended behaviour. The LLM can't determine that there are secrets in your file before reading them.

The real issue here is that you're giving an LLM access to a file with plain-text secrets and then surprised that it reads that file.

The fact that the whole repo is automatically uploaded is crazy though, especially for multi-gigabyte repositories. This could take a long time on some connections, and seems generally pointless ­— unless there's some ulterior motive for uploading all this data.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's straight up data exfiltration and should be illegal

> and should be illegal It almost certainly already is, at least in some jurisdictions for some forms of data. GDPR, HIPAA, CCPA, biometric privacy, et cetera almost certainly will find claws into this behaviour.

Re: HIPAA, it would be the covered entity or business associate that is allowing xAI access to PHI who would be in violation, not xAI; same as Google isn’t responsible if someone sends PHI over Gmail and Google scans it.

Re: What xAI's Grok build CLI sends to xAI: A wire-level analysis

#170
post #156

[flagged]

" Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: I suppose I'd better add that this is not a defense of $THAT_GUY - just an attempted defense of HN comment quality. Edit 2: Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait generally? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. For example, we ban accounts that post things like https…

It’s funny how you’re always policing me and not the thousands of other people that are posting much worse things. I’d be happy if there was a version where I can just see links, comments and add posts to favourites. That’s all I need really.
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