Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Programmers need to start meditating

jacob.gold

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 178 posts

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#161

Post by wolvoleo »

pigpop wrote: post #130
wolvoleo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what the OP and I argue against, people insisting that it must be good for everyone. By the way the 'painful' part does more heaviy lifting there, not the boring. I've really tried a LOT during therapy and in some other situations. And it just doesn't work for me. Same with traditional exercise by the way. I can't do exercise in a gym (too empty) or have those 'gamification' goals, it must be more nat…

It's all exertion, for both "meditation" and exercise. I'm convinced that meditation doesn't work for a lot of people because it has too much dogma about what it's supposed to be, and maybe those aspects are valid for certain pursuits, but it obscures the core principle. Take exercise as an example first. It's also a practice that is layered under heaps of nonsense and complexity or fluffed up with idealisms and syst…

Yes a lot of people compared it to exercise. But that's something I don't do either unless it's on my own terms.

I know it would be good for me to work out an hour per day but I don't. I just can't bring myself to it.

It's the same with eating, I'm obese but simply eating less just doesn't work.

I can only do exercise when I combine it with something else. Like exploring new trails in nature.

I just don't have discipline and it's not in my character to build it. It'll just end up a few weeks till I drop it again. And more importantly I wouldn't be happy being a disciplined person.

Mediation probably would bring me benefits but it's just too much friction to get to that point so I'll never get there. I've stopped feeling bad about not doing all those things and instead focusing on the things I can do well and that do work for me.

So the problem isn't with mediation, it's with me. But either way it's just out of reach and that's why it didn't work for me.

The point of programming being meditative is equally the point. It just happens to be a way people can get into that. It's something that works for them. It doesn't necessarily mean that more traditional mediation will suit them.

Personally if my job would change so much and I didn't like it I'd pivot to something else instead. Though that's admittedly not always easy.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#162

Post by [deleted] »

ajb wrote: post #16

This isn't the worst article, and it's triggered a decent amount of discussion (despite being very short). However, I really dislike "What you're doing wrong/failing to do" titles. They are intended to trigger anxiety, which is manipulative and (in this case) precisely contradicts the concern the author is purporting to have for the rest of us. On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it…

[deleted]

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#163

Post by jacobgold »

ajb wrote: post #16

This isn't the worst article, and it's triggered a decent amount of discussion (despite being very short). However, I really dislike "What you're doing wrong/failing to do" titles. They are intended to trigger anxiety, which is manipulative and (in this case) precisely contradicts the concern the author is purporting to have for the rest of us. On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it…

> "They are intended to trigger anxiety, which is manipulative and (in this case) precisely contradicts the concern the author is purporting to have for the rest of us."

What? That's a very uncharitable take.

I wrote this blog post and it was a sincere attempt to genuinely help people. It seems to have been very helpful for some people, based on the responses/messages I've received.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#164

Post by MyHonestOpinon »

ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

Just wondering if we are working a lot but perhaps we do not get the same feeling of accomplishment that we used to get since we feel that we are not really doing the work?

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#166

Post by sph »

specialist wrote: post #157
cl3misch wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tools are supposed to be designed around humans This is a common thing to say, but when during the development of human civilization has this actually been the case? Is agriculture designed around humans more than hunting/gathering? Is industrialized work more designed around humans than agrarian society? I don't mean to sound pessimistic or technocratic; quite the contrary. But I think we shouldn't project our des…

We shape the tools that in turn shape us.

True; I have seen the agentic workflow and I would rather not be shaped by it.

It looks like absolute hell of constant distraction making it impossible to reach a state of flow.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#167

Post by Matumio »

mstaoru wrote: post #27
jahala wrote: post #8

Meditation - «getting used to» A most elementary form of meditation, is getting used to placing your attention on a sensation and keeping it anchored there - even when other sensations or thoughts arise. Following the breath- place your awareness, your attention, on the sensation of air passing through your nostrils. Count one inbreath and outbreath cycle as «1», and count until 10 or 21. Decide before you start, how…

So you can place your attention on a single session of Claude Code, count to 21, and switch to another? :)

No, the same session. Start it over again, like in Westworld. Repeat until you become one with Claude.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#168

Post by pigpop »

wolvoleo wrote: post #161
pigpop wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all exertion, for both "meditation" and exercise. I'm convinced that meditation doesn't work for a lot of people because it has too much dogma about what it's supposed to be, and maybe those aspects are valid for certain pursuits, but it obscures the core principle. Take exercise as an example first. It's also a practice that is layered under heaps of nonsense and complexity or fluffed up with idealisms and syst…

Yes a lot of people compared it to exercise. But that's something I don't do either unless it's on my own terms. I know it would be good for me to work out an hour per day but I don't. I just can't bring myself to it. It's the same with eating, I'm obese but simply eating less just doesn't work. I can only do exercise when I combine it with something else. Like exploring new trails in nature. I just don't have discip…

I'm sorry those other things haven't worked for you and I can understand the struggle of giving up on pursuits like that. I was hoping to communicate through what I wrote that you don't need to do things the traditional or recommended way. If you like exploring trails then by all means just explore trails, you don't need to do it as a gateway to exercise or meditation, just do it because you enjoy it and if you get other benefits out of it then so much the better.

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#169

Post by mxmilkiib »

"'A Course on Early Buddhist Meditation' is a series of ten long-format talks on meditation by Bhante Sujato. The curriculum derives from the early suttas, particularly from the Theravada tradition.

"The video trailer for the original course from which this series has been derived/edited can be found here - https://youtu.be/EEOykTO5754

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcMC0iGGyFk&list=PL70fWqztn7...

"Mahāsatipaṭṭhānasutta - Bh. Sujato", the main breath mindfulness/meditation sutta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcMC0iGGyFk&list=PL70fWqztn7...

https://suttacentral.net/dn22/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain...

A_History_of_Mindfulness_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf;

https://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A_H...

"This series of 10 Dhamma Talks by Bhante Sujato, given during the rains retreat in Santi Forest Monastery in NSW, Australia in 2007 is the most detailed description of Ajahn Mahachatchai's Metta Meditation technique I have ever come across on the internet."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HREe6phLMpU&list=PLTcGMzIEhl...

Cūḷavedallasutta/The Shorter Elaboration, a socratic discource between a nun and, iirc, their former partner, who later became a monk/mendicant ("begger")

"10.2 “The noble eightfold path is conditioned.” (grasping for good things is good, until you finish crossing the river with that raft)

https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain...

https://suttacentral.net/snp1.8/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=pla...

https://youtu.be/maBmEU4YUi8 - Metta Sutta/The Discourse on Love, recital/chant in English by Sujato

Re: Programmers need to start meditating

#170

Post by deterministic »

ehnto wrote: post #3

I have certainly noticed my stress skyrocket in this new mode of working. I was used to getting a lot done very quickly, with intense pockets of work followed downtime. Now it feels more like a steady stream of medium stress, and there is no opportunity to stop or drop the thread. I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to…

I feel the complete opposite. I am much more relaxed now since I can be way more effective while actually working less.
Post reply on HN