IMHO, models by US companies are the biggest security risk so I'm fine with using models on this "blacklist."
Why?
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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
161–170 of 633 posts
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
CVS?
CVS (drugstore chain) and Walgreens were among the first major U.S. merchants to accept Alipay via QR code payments, allowing Chinese consumers (and anyone with Alipay) to pay at these stores.
This person is correct.
I pay for 2 servers running in Asia under Alibaba, using my local CVS drugstore. Im in the Midwest USA. Not a single problem at all.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'
"First published in 1997 to inform the public on entities involved in disseminating weapons of mass destruction, the list has since expanded to include entities that engaged in "activities sanctioned by the State Department and activities contrary to U.S. national security and/or foreign policy interests" So RAM chip makers when there's a RAM shortage must be 'contrary to U.S. national security and/or foreign policy…
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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#164Noteworthy that Z.ai, maker of the just released near-frontier GLM 5.2, has already been on the Entity List since Jan 2025[1]. Being on the Entity List does not mean all trade is forbidden. Broadly speaking it means American companies and individuals are not allowed sell them goods and services, but they are still allowed to buy from them and pay them. AFAIK the Chinese AI companies barely depend on US goods and serv…
How does that even work? If Z.ai wants to buy lets say GPUs for AI training, what's stopping them from going to a local reseller? Its not even circumventing the rules, its the natural thing to do. For that matter, does (only) NVIDIA make datacenter cards? When I buy a gaming card, I dont buy from NVIDIA, I buy from an integrator, like Gigabyte, who work with a company like Foxconn to make the cards.
The GamersNexus documentary (https://youtu.be/1H3xQaf7BFI) on the semi-underground GPU trade in China, while a little amateurish in terms of depth and general atmosphere, is an interesting watch and may answer some of your questions.
Basically, those export controls make GPUs more expensive for affected parties in China, but don't effectively stop them from being acquired or used over there.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you don't think industrial capacity is relevant to geopolitical power… Of course it is! But so does the quality of what that capacity puts out. Again, the Russians found that out in Ukraine.
What does the Russian economy have to do with anything? First off, they're run by a kleptocratic oligarchy, and second of all they're still one of the top 5 most militarily powerful countries in the world. I don't even know what point you're making? Did they bail out Chrysler? Which side of the analogy are they even on?
> What does the Russian economy have to do with anything? First off, they're run by a kleptocratic oligarchy
Kinda answered your own question there.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#166The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…
> It's why we can't buy BYD cars are you sure it has nothing to do with the fact that those cars are very heavy, potentially fire-making (battery firmware) computers on wheels that can be rooted (or are already) at any time by their manufacturers in China?
Is the idea that we're just one OTA update from them turning into bombs? Considering the quality of software in the auto industry, I would be about as worried about any domestically assembled EV.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#167Why would my country blacklist DeepSeek? Perhaps crazy lunacy like: "Your product is too good and too inexpensive: consumers like US companies and individuals need to pay more for services."
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#168If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".
As a European, I trust Chinese AI providers more than American. Cloud act did it for me.
Both China and the US can compel businesses to hand over data. There is no reason to trust any service that doesn't have strong built in privacy.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#169The US government exists to defend capital interests. It's why we can't buy BYD cars. It's why we can't import any cars unless they're 25 years old. It's why a Tiktok sale was forced. It's why the US is seeking to block states from banning prediction markets. It's why the federal government is seeking to block states from blocking data center projects. As soon as DeepSeek came out I realized what was going on: China…
The reason we can't buy BYD cars is because if we allowed it without restrictions, it would utterly and completely destroy the United States auto industry. That's terrible public policy, and we should not allow it. Before anyone starts talking about the free market, there is no free market here whatsoever. The fact that BYD's cost structure is what it is is the direct result of Chinese industrial policy. Unilateral s…
Why do people say this? You can get a Shanghai-made Tesla Model 3 with CATL batteries in the US yet somehow, if a Chinese car, made with Chinese components in Chinese factories were to enter the market, the would spell doom for the entire US auto industry.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#170IMHO, models by US companies are the biggest security risk so I'm fine with using models on this "blacklist."
Why?
Because they siphon off data to US intelligence, and if you claim they don't, you couldn't possibly know because the CLOUD Act can mandate them to do so without telling you or allowing you to admit it. Of course, if you're in the US this doesn't matter but for the rest of the world it does.