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A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

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Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#161

Post by sunshine-o »

d3Xt3r wrote: post #128
RetroTechie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you'd have to replace the OS with an up-to-date one to use the phone as a cluster node. But... if Google can do so if handed a random pile of old phones, then why would a consumer not be given the same option for their phones? If it works only for phones sold by Google once, same question holds. And applies to other vendors. As you said: the "phone becomes useless just because OEM drops support" cycle needs…

Replacing the OS is only one part of the equation, it doesn't mean you're replacing the low-level firmware blobs provided by various chipset vendors (like Qualcomm). For phones before the Project Treble era (~2018), the OS, the kernel, and the vendor blobs were all deeply intertwined with each other. Because you can't get newer blobs from the hardware vendors, it's generally not possible to run a newer OS on those de…

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Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#162

Post by jurgenburgen »

numpad0 wrote: post #147
bigiain wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baseband, Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth seem like things that should not work in this context (either as a cluster in a data center, or for an old device I want to repurpose in my home lab). Is there anything that typically _requires_ vendor blobs to let a phone run as a usb ethernet connected linux-ish node? So no camera, screen/touchscreen, wifi/bt/cellular radios, gps, nfc/rfid, or stuff like that? I know RasPi relies or (…

Backlights, battery, anything. Modern high performance CPUs need an external debug adapter to set up the board before they can be powered on(old supercomputers did too). Blobs running on a less-modern CPU handles that. The less modern CPU in RasPi is its GPU, but it can be other devices; it can be the modem, or a "security" sub-CPU. IMO it's possible that the bigger issue is no one knows what's going on inside these…

If you read the linked article they throw away everything except the motherboard from the phones.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#163

Post by MRaid »

bigiain wrote: post #143
MRaid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pretty much agree with everything you said. But I think there is a chance for this to be commercially viable if it is offered in a different way. I,e not just raw cloud computing maybe you can run games on these clusters and jack the price a little. This is highly dependant on the virtual age of these clusters if they survive 10 of continuos work maybe there is a chance

I wonder if this is a research project about mitigating the risk of not being able to procure compute hardware if the AI industry soaks up all available hardware manufacturing capacity and raw materials? I wonder if someone's trying to work out if they can keep GCP alive when there's no ram or cpu to be bought at any price because the AI companies (including the AI division in Google) and Nvidea have completely broke…

i don't think that the ai hype will destroy compute procurment for normal cloud opertaions but you can be sure that it'll be used as an excuse to jack the prices a lot.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#164

Post by rishikeshs »

> On average, people replace their phone every four years. This is generally driven by people’s desire for a new device, including for the functionalities provided by new models.

This is so not true. I'm not replacing my phone because I want to. I'm replacing because your stupid updates break my phone and make it unusable. It's called Planned obsolescence

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#165

Post by stephenlf »

wky wrote: post #43

This is neat. This group’s approach of treating the devices as many weaker servers (basically a raspberry pi cluster) sounds like the most realistic way to reuse phone hardware at scale, especially with the backing of the actual hardware vendor. It’s a genuine shame how locked down iPhones are compared to even Android. Hypothetically you could run Linux inside UTM[0] but outside the EU Apple makes it intentionally di…

I doubt that many data centers or enterprises are interested in building phone clusters. I hope that this project will produce something that homelabs and self-hosters can build with 3D printers. That seems like the most probable end consumer.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#167

Post by josh-sematic »

josh-sematic wrote: post #75
planb wrote: post #23

Sometimes I have weird fantasies about a post apocalyptic world where factories burned down and people have to live with the tech that’s available. No network, just off site solar power or generators, only local devices. I think it’s interesting to think about how far we could get with this. Does anyone have recommendations for novels, movies or video games with that topic?

Not fiction but you might find this interesting: https://collapseos.org/why.html

FWIW I think “total supply chain collapse by 2030” is highly unlikely, but this kind of constrained technical thinking is pretty cool.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#168

Post by vitally3643 »

RetroTechie wrote: post #5
zipy124 wrote: post #3

This is ignoring the fact that the main reason retired phones are e-waste is proprietary firmware blobs and locked-down systems preventing users from maintaining their phone with security updates, and very limited support length from OEM's leads to VERY insecure devices after they drop out of support. You should not be connecting these old devices to an internet accessible network. Google notably does well here with…

Obviously you'd have to replace the OS with an up-to-date one to use the phone as a cluster node. But... if Google can do so if handed a random pile of old phones, then why would a consumer not be given the same option for their phones? If it works only for phones sold by Google once, same question holds. And applies to other vendors. As you said: the "phone becomes useless just because OEM drops support" cycle needs…

> why would a consumer not be given the same option for their phones?

Because it's more profitable to force customers to buy new phones every n years, and nobody is interested in stopping this behavior. There is no other reason that is grounded in any type of fact.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#169

Post by teddyh »

planb wrote: post #23

Sometimes I have weird fantasies about a post apocalyptic world where factories burned down and people have to live with the tech that’s available. No network, just off site solar power or generators, only local devices. I think it’s interesting to think about how far we could get with this. Does anyone have recommendations for novels, movies or video games with that topic?

There are many who indulge in such fantasies, but I would instead give a warning. The reason you have such fantasies is likely because you, yourself, are competent in the necessary skills. But from there it is only a hair-thin line that separates you from having feelings of actively wanting such a catastrophy to occur, because it would make you and your skills valuable. Beware of such self-indulgence.

It is self-indulgence, because we can see similar fantasies in people with other skills; people collecting guns often secretly long for a collapse of law and order, people who live in the countryside and have horses imagine themselves to be cowboys in a car-less world. People who like to tinker with old cars imagine Mad Max scenarios. Et cetera. None of these scenarios are especially likely to occur; they only persist in people’s imaginations because many secretly hope for them to come to pass.

Re: A low-carbon computing platform from your retired phones

#170

Post by pvtmert »

I guess the article is targeting regular people. However combining terms like "Linux distro" with other non technical explanations like "useless components such as screens, cameras, etc" sounded a bit weird to me.

Also;

  For example, phones have a “low memory killer” daemon, which throttles memory-hungry applications.
I mean, this is also needed for server applications, more-so than personal use. Reason being in fact a runaway process would interrupt many users rather than a single user in server versus client use cases respectively...
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