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Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

media.mercedes-benz.com

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Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#161

Post by mohsen1 »

utopiah wrote: post #124
mohsen1 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious how this thing works and asked Claude to visualize it -- mostly to see how good Fable is and I have to say, what it made was good enough for me to get a gist of it. Posted it here https://azimi.me/axial-flux-motor-explainer/

Thanks for sharing. I wish it was a bit more interactive especially when there are parameters, e.g. "Widen the disc and torque rises with diameter cubed" I wish there was a slider to see that effect and thus maybe why there might be a sweet spot. Also I have "The Way Things Work" on my desk right now and can't help but wonder, could you adapt some of the pages of the book this way? It seems like exactly the kind of c…

Code is here https://github.com/mohsen1/axial-flux-motor-explainer

Feel free to steal! This was one shot with Claude Code. You can take it and adopt it to your need

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#162

Post by pfdietz »

Sharlin wrote: post #86
arethuza wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like a 600 HP 1.5l supercharged V16 - doesn't even need to be in a car, mainly just to listen to! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Racing_Motors_V16

If the displacement isn’t measured in cubic meters, can you even call it an engine?

Bonus points if you have to heat that crap you call fuel before you inject it into the massive cylinder.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#163

Post by pfdietz »

rswail wrote: post #115
WJW wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stick two of them together on the same axle then.

Why do you need an axle? Put the engine and its transmission to the wheel mounted next to each wheel. No need for differentials etc, if they can work out a steering mechanism for each, then you've got 4WD with 4W steering. In the video there's talk of how you can use them as regenerative braking as well, so have that as part of the wheel structure. No axles, no differentials, independent suspension, electronically co…

Wouldn't putting them in the wheel increase unsprung mass, which would degrade the feel of the car?

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#164

Post by manarth »

eptcyka wrote: post #149
manarth wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used left-foot-braking in my (ICE-powered) daily driver for years. Regenerative braking is very different to taking your foot off the accelerator in a conventional ICE car, it's much more powerful a stopping force than traditional engine-braking. I understand the rationale for moving the pedal to illustrate the amount of "braking" force. I'll admit I'm not exactly a typical driver though.

Why not move the gas pedal too, when using cruise control then?

    > "Why not move the gas pedal too?"
I'd support that. It does feel unusual in most cars' cruise control that you can push the accelerator to three-quarters of its travel before you start to accelerate (e.g. if cruise control is at 50–60mph).

If you push the gas pedal, you'd expect to go faster, wouldn't you?

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#165

Post by MostlyStable »

0-_-0 wrote: post #131
engineer_22 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This design enables an especially compact motor architecture, high power and torque density, and new freedoms in drivetrain packaging. Hand waving.

No, it means the motor is smaller and it can be put into the wheel

aren't there other issues with having the motor in the wheels? Unsprung mass, plus the wheels can get pretty banged around?

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#166

Post by red369 »

arethuza wrote: post #47
nelox wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a V12 or V16, thank you very much.

I'd like a 600 HP 1.5l supercharged V16 - doesn't even need to be in a car, mainly just to listen to! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Racing_Motors_V16

Ok, me too now. But you can’t have that, so maybe you could settle for a high-reving V8 in a tunnel?

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#167

Post by ahartmetz »

boringg wrote: post #83
bluebarbet wrote: post #82

For a century Germany's comparative advantage has been [mechanical] engineering. As a European I want (need?) Germany to succeed. Ergo: more of this, please.

Their advantage was mechanical engineering. They have historically not done well with electrical systems. So this is a change - hopefully for the better.

Electrical auxiliary stuff used to be and maybe still is a source of trouble. Power electronics should be fine, there's plenty of know-how available in the country, and with any luck, car companies won't have time to home-grow a mismanagement structure to fuck it up like they did with software.

Software and battery cells are the main challenges.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#169

Post by DrBazza »

pjc50 wrote: post #153
originalvichy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how developing electric motors compares to combustion engines. My hunch says that it’s the main reason the Chinese high-tech electronics industry was able to develop and iterate leading electric vehicles so fast. (Edit: My more clarified point is regarding the machinery required + place to accommodate them to work on electric motors vs. ICE metal parts and all the intermediary parts transfering power in the…

The Chinese EV industry is actually lead by development of batteries , especially CATL. Along with the pack engineering, which is good old Mech.E stuff about heat transfer and physical strength. Secondarily power electronics; at that scale, you can't just pick a bigger transistor and call it a day. By comparison the motors seem to be a mostly solved problem, although I'm sure there's still some scope for power-to-wei…

And is development of batteries (and better magnetics) not just chemical engineering and material science?

Motors might be a 'solved problem' - there might not be much innovation, Maxwell's laws aren't changing any time soon, but there will surely be a lot of incremental improvement - an early 1900s ICE is considerably worse than a 2000s ICE.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#170

Post by DrBazza »

interloxia wrote: post #9
AndrewDucker wrote: post #4

It would have been awesome if that article had, at any point, explained what an electric axial flux motor was, and why anyone might want one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_flux_motor

The automotive part is interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_flux_motor#Automotive

> Mercedes-Benz subsidiary YASA (Yokeless and Segmented Armature) makes AFMs that have powered various concept (Jaguar C-X75), prototype, and racing vehicles. It was also used in the Koenigsegg Regera, the Ferrari SF90 Stradale and 296GTB, Lamborghini Revuelto, McLaren Artura and the Lola-Drayson.[9] The company is investigating the potential for placing motors inside wheels, given that AFM's low mass does not excessively increase a vehicle's unsprung mass.[10]

> In July 2025, YASA announced a prototype 550 kW (738 hp) 13.1 kg (29 lb) motor, equating to power density of 42 kW/kg, which the company claimed to be the highest ever achieved.[11] By contrast, the state of the art EV motor from Lucid Motors offers a 500 kW, 31.4-kg motor, or 16 kW/kg.[12]

> The first application of these motors will be in the High Performance Mercedes‑AMG GT 4-Touring Coupe.[14]

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