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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#161

Post by ericmay »

phoronixrly wrote: post #152
ericmay wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why s…

You are mistaken. I am pro-Scotland independence and EU admission but anti Catalonia independence. Simply because the former will expand and strengthen the EU and the latter will divide and weaken it, especially since it's supported by Russia.

[flagged]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#162

Post by rayiner »

bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

> benefits from diverse cultures

You mean "benefits from increased population," right? Because isn't the whole theory that people are the same? If so, you're just adding new people who are exactly the same as the existing people. So the only benefits come from having more people, or more people with certain skills (if you're filtering based on that).

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#163

Post by IlikeMadison »

bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

[flagged]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#164

Post by Schiendelman »

kaufmae wrote: post #151
contagiousflow wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how adding frequency to the train network will not work to compensate higher ridership?

Frequency is basically 15 minutes almost all over the country already

That's almost laughably infrequent - you can use single level trains with more doors to triple that without even going to automation.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#165

Post by asyx »

Argonaut998 wrote: post #94
soco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm totally missing the explanation how my quality of life will increase when Swiss products cannot be sold in the EU anymore because of the price hikes and double bureaucracy - including no more cross-border work. Job loss doesn't say much "quality of life", nor does higher prices on imports.

You are assuming there won’t be free trade agreements. People need to stop saying what happened with Brexit will happen with Switzerland. Two completely different countries governed in two completely different ways.

The EU would be really stupid to give you a good deal. Like, for self preservation purposes alone it would be really beneficial if Switzerland would just really suffer after leaving the EEA especially because a lot of shit was going down in Europe and the world after brexit. Can’t really point at the cost of living in the uk and say that’s brexit when petrol is almost 2€ in Germany as well.

But a Switzerland that just collapses surely but surely? That’s gonna send a message.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#166

Post by ericmay »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121
ericmay wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why s…

> sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why? I think the first is a good idea and the second fine if that’s what they want.

Because those would be breaking up the unions of those countries. It's no different morally or philosophically from Switzerland leaving the EU.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#167

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ericmay wrote: post #161
phoronixrly wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken. I am pro-Scotland independence and EU admission but anti Catalonia independence. Simply because the former will expand and strengthen the EU and the latter will divide and weaken it, especially since it's supported by Russia.

[flagged]

…if Greenland voted to join the U.S., the conversation would be quite different.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#168

Post by joe_mamba »

foobarian wrote: post #100
arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

Elderly people in our village in east Europe used to be super suspicious of the EU project and would say that European countries get along like "a sack of horns." Hopefully they were wrong :-)

>would say that European countries get along like "a sack of horns."

True words of wisdom.

> Hopefully they were wrong :-)

They weren't. EU membership and cooperation is built on favoritism and necessity. You get into the EU if you have something of value the other members need from you (capital, geopolitical, industrial, human or natural resources) done via treaties instead of via war and conquest.

So it ended up as a toxic relationship where members exploit each other to get as much as they can while contributing as little as they can.

@Ukraine, you'll experience this when you get your turn, just ask Romania.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#169

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ceejayoz wrote: post #134
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if it passes, there will be something tied to the bilateral referendum in 2027/28 to try to supersede it This is my thinking, too. If it really comes down to Chexit-or-nothing, we’ll have another referendum.

That was the UK's thinking, too. "We won't have a hard Brexit! Of course they'll negotiate a plan!"

And then the UK delivered an Article 50 notice. That isn’t something this referendum would force.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#170

Post by Asmod4n »

kuboble wrote: post #132

Being in Switzerland it looks to me like this is a really tough referendum. Both sides have very good arguments and from the side it looks like either way the Switzerland has to give up some asoects of its high quality of life. If the initiative succeeds, Switzerland will get a large hit from the cancelation of a lot of bilateral agreements with the EU. If the population exceeds 10M then the current rail and road inf…

Capping a population is a short term solution creating huge issues for the following generations. Examples: lots of places this happened.
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