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Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

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Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#161

Post by nerdsniper »

kardianos wrote: post #138
RivieraKid wrote: post #110

I've recently went into a rabbit hole of learning about Singapore. It's fascinating that you can transform a developing country into a country that's almost on the level of Switzerland in 60 years. I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies?

Lee had a dedication to results, not ideology. Survival is not right; survival must be earned. They explicitly avoid multi-culturalsim and groom technically competent, detail oriented bureaucrats and politicians. In other words, they view reality as real and consequential, and they do what works and take the next step.

Did I misread your thesis? It seemed like your strongest argument is “survival must be earned” and your most immediate claim to this is that “Singapore avoids multiculturalism.”

And then you kind of go on to imply that because they avoid being multicultural they instead are detail oriented and technically competent.

A lack of multiculturalism seems…like a very very nonsensical claim to make about Singapore. Its one of the most celebrated intersectional cities merging the identities of three different major regions.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#162

Post by boelboel »

rayiner wrote: post #129
RivieraKid wrote: post #110

I've recently went into a rabbit hole of learning about Singapore. It's fascinating that you can transform a developing country into a country that's almost on the level of Switzerland in 60 years. I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies?

The location is good, but there are many strategically well located places that are poor today. The people aren’t meaningfully different than the countries around Singapore. A 75% Chinese supermajority, maintained for decades through selective immigration controls. But China itself was as poor as India into the 1990s, while Singapore was rapidly developing long before then. LKY chalked it up to good, pragmatic polici…

China wasn't as poor as India, especially not until 1990s.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#163

Post by rayiner »

boelboel wrote: post #162
rayiner wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The location is good, but there are many strategically well located places that are poor today. The people aren’t meaningfully different than the countries around Singapore. A 75% Chinese supermajority, maintained for decades through selective immigration controls. But China itself was as poor as India into the 1990s, while Singapore was rapidly developing long before then. LKY chalked it up to good, pragmatic polici…

China wasn't as poor as India, especially not until 1990s.

It absolutely was: https://davidoks.blog/p/why-china-got-rich-and-india-didnt (“In 1987, median purchasing-power adjusted income in China was $1.88 per day, compared to $2.94 per day in India. Chinese median wages surpassed Indian ones in the early 2000s.”). Also: https://mgmresearch.com/china-vs-india-gdp-comparison/ (“During 1990, China GDP per capita was 0.9-times of India.”).

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#164

Post by xyzzy123 »

nerdsniper wrote: post #161
kardianos wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lee had a dedication to results, not ideology. Survival is not right; survival must be earned. They explicitly avoid multi-culturalsim and groom technically competent, detail oriented bureaucrats and politicians. In other words, they view reality as real and consequential, and they do what works and take the next step.

Did I misread your thesis? It seemed like your strongest argument is “survival must be earned” and your most immediate claim to this is that “Singapore avoids multiculturalism.” And then you kind of go on to imply that because they avoid being multicultural they instead are detail oriented and technically competent. A lack of multiculturalism seems…like a very very nonsensical claim to make about Singapore. Its one o…

It is not "multiculturalism" in the way that word would be used in say, Canada.

They have quotas to prevent enclaves, they actively manage immigration to keep it about 3/4 Chinese, there are a lot of restrictions on speech and the ways you're allowed to organise.

The things Singapore does to manage their ethnic diversity 100% would not fly in the west.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#165

Post by teleforce »

RivieraKid wrote: post #110

I've recently went into a rabbit hole of learning about Singapore. It's fascinating that you can transform a developing country into a country that's almost on the level of Switzerland in 60 years. I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies?

> I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies?

It's mainly its strategic location and it's always been the the busiest maritime route chokepoint since recorded history between east and west, specifically between India and China two of the most populous nations in the world.

It sit right at the tip of the Strait of Malacca, the busiest and the longest strait in the world. This one famous quote by a 16th CE Portuguese explorer Tomé Pires, who declared: "Whoever is lord of Malacca has his hand on the throat of Venice".

Secondly is the people, and the third is the governance policy. Essentially, you must have be a bone-headed to screw up Singapore, like the one who can bankrupt a central bank.

My original top most comment on the great lie of Singapore was just an obscure fishing village during the early colonial time but it's has already downvoted to oblivion, you can check them out if you want.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#166

Post by rrvsh »

teleforce wrote: post #165
RivieraKid wrote: post #110

I've recently went into a rabbit hole of learning about Singapore. It's fascinating that you can transform a developing country into a country that's almost on the level of Switzerland in 60 years. I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies?

> I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies? It's mainly its strategic location and it's always been the the busiest maritime route chokepoint since recorded history between east and west, specifically between India and China two of the most populous nations in the world. It sit right at the tip of the Strait…

The reason for your last point is that Singaporeans are taught in school that we were nothing but a fishing village until first colonialism (and Chinese immigrants) arrived and turned us into a major port, then the PAP (Lee Kuan Yew's party) turned us into a first world nation. It's really propaganda, and of course you wouldn't bother looking up information that you were taught to see as truth when you were a young child

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#167

Post by rrvsh »

nerdsniper wrote: post #161
kardianos wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lee had a dedication to results, not ideology. Survival is not right; survival must be earned. They explicitly avoid multi-culturalsim and groom technically competent, detail oriented bureaucrats and politicians. In other words, they view reality as real and consequential, and they do what works and take the next step.

Did I misread your thesis? It seemed like your strongest argument is “survival must be earned” and your most immediate claim to this is that “Singapore avoids multiculturalism.” And then you kind of go on to imply that because they avoid being multicultural they instead are detail oriented and technically competent. A lack of multiculturalism seems…like a very very nonsensical claim to make about Singapore. Its one o…

It is not nonsensical in the slightest. The government does their best to maintain a monoculture while promoting the farce of multiculturalism, because a monoculture facilitates easier economic growth which is the overall aim of the government rather than cultural development. Multiculturalism is essentially pacification because obviously this is unpopular

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#168

Post by rrvsh »

ggm wrote: post #3

Weaponised the court system to repress union backed opposition, despite having been engaged with the union movement in his early years (as I understand it) It is a kind of workers paradise. If you're well behaved and don't shout you get a good education, health system and housing. 95% owner occupied is pretty damn good. Huge dependence on south Malaysia migrant workers shuttling over the bridge every day, so it's "ho…

+1, it is absolutely safe but just not that free, which is touted as a requirement for safety

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#169

Post by rrvsh »

mc32 wrote: post #4
ggm wrote: post #3

Weaponised the court system to repress union backed opposition, despite having been engaged with the union movement in his early years (as I understand it) It is a kind of workers paradise. If you're well behaved and don't shout you get a good education, health system and housing. 95% owner occupied is pretty damn good. Huge dependence on south Malaysia migrant workers shuttling over the bridge every day, so it's "ho…

Singapore, like other ex-Colonies in SEAsia prove that having been a colony is not an excuse for not doing well. HK, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea were heavily colonized yet after emerging as independent states were able to overcome difficulties, educate their people, take what they learned from their colonizers and have become leading economies of the world. Governance is more important than one’s history when it c…

This is a false dichotomy - the nature of the colony matters a LOT more than you allude to here. Singapore got a heck of a lot better deal as a colony than e.g. African colonies because we didn't get ruthlessly exploited and instead just used for our seaport primarily

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#170

Post by teleforce »

rrvsh wrote: post #166
teleforce wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies? It's mainly its strategic location and it's always been the the busiest maritime route chokepoint since recorded history between east and west, specifically between India and China two of the most populous nations in the world. It sit right at the tip of the Strait…

The reason for your last point is that Singaporeans are taught in school that we were nothing but a fishing village until first colonialism (and Chinese immigrants) arrived and turned us into a major port, then the PAP (Lee Kuan Yew's party) turned us into a first world nation. It's really propaganda, and of course you wouldn't bother looking up information that you were taught to see as truth when you were a young c…

That explain it, thanks.

My comments point at one time at double figure and then it went south to zero now, but it probably can be negative soon, c'est la vie.

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