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What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

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Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#161

Post by nec4b »

Tor3 wrote: post #93
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #4

They’ll find it easy to keep their homogenous culture and shared traditional values. Why would the solution to “our people aren’t having enough babies” be “we should import different people to have their babies here”? Why does ever single bleeding heart liberal globalist try and ignore the deep psychological truths about human tribalism? It’s not even a bad thing, but even if it was, it’s a fact.

>They’ll find it easy to keep their homogenous culture and shared traditional values. That idea is a fallacy. It has never been true. All of Europe was always a melting pot for people from everywhere. Over the centuries people kept moving, immigrating and emigrating. England.. Britons, Celts, Anglo-Saxxon, Norse, Normans (which were themselves originally immigrants). And my own country? Surnames from everywhere. 40%…

Doesn't sound fun though.First being conquered by Romans, then Anglo Saxons, then pillaged by Vikings and the conquered again by Normans.

I'm pretty sure where ever you come from that you have a dominant groups which imposes it's culture to every other subgroup. Every country where that is not the case, you infighting and war.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#162

Post by nec4b »

Tor3 wrote: post #133
DrProtic wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You refer to a period where we had constant war in Europe? You literally posted an example of the opposite.

In what way? I included England just because those particular periods are well-known. If you look at ALL of Europe's history, all up to recent times, there's been constant movements and migrations. People with different backgrounds, moving around, a lot of movement came as trade increased (and, as it has lately been found, there was much more trade even 3k years ago than anyone had previously anticipated). If you loo…

It really hasn't been constant movement and migrations. Once the Germanic and Slavic tribes settled, which wasn't fun for the natives before them and certainly not for the Romans as well, the migration more or less stopped statistically speaking (exceptions were the wars).

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#163

Post by Erem »

nec4b wrote: post #159
Erem wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does ever single bleeding heart liberal globalist try and ignore the deep psychological truths about human tribalism? I'll bite. In the US, for one, every single person has an ancestor that thanked their lucky stars the locals didn't think the way that you are recommending we think today. Or an ancestor that suffered because the locals did think that way. We honor that heritage by paying it forward, lest we be…

And yet american culture and values are from it's dominant and founding group. All other groups were expected to assimilate and join the melting pot. >>In the US, for one, every single person has an ancestor that thanked their lucky stars the locals didn't think the way that you are recommending we think today. I don't think you thought it through before you wrote this. As the locals, certainly didn't want what you i…

> All other groups were expected to assimilate and join the melting pot.

I partially agree. Counter evidence is that Little Italy, Chinatowns and the like exist and have done for many decades. Ethnic clubs like Sons of Italy persist. Some Pennsylvania Dutch still don't speak English, and still set themselves apart. But at the same time, many from those groups join the majority culture and leave their old languages behind.

In this respect I don't see modern immigration in America any differently. Newer immigrant groups have their culture enclaves, but many from those groups also enter and adopt the majority culture.

> I don't think you thought it through before you wrote this

You're misreading my comment. For most of us, the locals at time of ancestor arrival had already displaced the natives to whom you refer

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#164

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Tor3 wrote: post #93
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #4

They’ll find it easy to keep their homogenous culture and shared traditional values. Why would the solution to “our people aren’t having enough babies” be “we should import different people to have their babies here”? Why does ever single bleeding heart liberal globalist try and ignore the deep psychological truths about human tribalism? It’s not even a bad thing, but even if it was, it’s a fact.

>They’ll find it easy to keep their homogenous culture and shared traditional values. That idea is a fallacy. It has never been true. All of Europe was always a melting pot for people from everywhere. Over the centuries people kept moving, immigrating and emigrating. England.. Britons, Celts, Anglo-Saxxon, Norse, Normans (which were themselves originally immigrants). And my own country? Surnames from everywhere. 40%…

You are leaving out quite a bit of warfare, exploitation, rape, hatred, cultural erasure, colonization, slavers, serfdom, monarchy, religious conversion, religion erasure, and genocide in that pretty picture you paint as "All of Europe was always a melting pot for people from everywhere".

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#165

Post by [deleted] »

justanotherjoe wrote: post #80
theturtlemoves wrote: post #63

You know, many eastern countries apparently intuitively think in cycles. The west tends to think linearly: "We're trending upwards, argh argh overpopulation, famine, death. We're trending downwards, argh argh population collapse, famine, death". Same with the perception of time. My country sees time as a line. I once had an interesting training where the instructor pointed this out. She went on to say that seeing tim…

Except in growth imperative system we have, to stop growing is not to not grow, it is to spiral into a cascade failure

[deleted]

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#166

Post by Balgair »

bestouff wrote: post #126
HerbManic wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do find it funny that some folks treat this is like the complete end of Japan (or whatever) nation, like you said a straight line down. But eventually it will bottom out and potentially rebound a bit. It find on the way up or at the top, and it will be fine at the bottom once the trends return but the issue really is the pain of the phase shift.

Yeah sure. It never happened that a great civilization completely collapsed.

I mean, Japan has been through a few 'collapses' in it's written history. The most recent arguably being in 1945.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#167

Post by snambi »

It's perfectly natural for a country to experience periods of growth and decline. Demographic and economic cycles rise and fall over time, and a period of contraction does not mean growth won't return in the future.

What isn't reversible is losing a country's identity. As a foreigner, I'd rather see Japan remain Japan than become a messy cultural mix, like Europe.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#168

Post by bestouff »

Balgair wrote: post #166
bestouff wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah sure. It never happened that a great civilization completely collapsed.

I mean, Japan has been through a few 'collapses' in it's written history. The most recent arguably being in 1945.

Sure but I was thinking about more wide-scale collapses like Egyptians or Mayans.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#169

Post by red-iron-pine »

Balgair wrote: post #166
bestouff wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah sure. It never happened that a great civilization completely collapsed.

I mean, Japan has been through a few 'collapses' in it's written history. The most recent arguably being in 1945.

and then the US invested heavily -- and still does, via military presence -- to build Japan back up to block the Soviets.

who will build them back up in the future? The Chinese would prefer to see them poor.

Re: What happens if Japan takes in zero immigrants?

#170

Post by red-iron-pine »

eska wrote: post #10

There is no “zero” immigration policy, this is a strawman. Controlled immigration is different from opening the floodgates. Also weird to admit that no country has reversed its birth rate problem, but still insist upon massive immigration being the solution.

there is no birth rate solution.

but if you want to keep the economy functioning, you need to do something. immigration is something.

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