American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn • Hacker News Board

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#161

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:24 AM UTC

saulapremium wrote: post #129

WalterBright wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many attempts at taking from the rich and giving to the poor, and the result was always everybody was worse off except the people who ran the government.

No, that is not always the result, very far from it. You seem to believe that society is just the natural state of things, and "government" is almost just in the way. It's an incredible blindness to the privilege you enjoy.

The proper role of government is to protect people from thieves and murderers and externalities and provide national defense.

I am not an anarchist.

> privilege you enjoy

Privileges anyone enjoys living in the United States. That's why millions are always trying to come here.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#162

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:24 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #114

WalterBright wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been many attempts at taking from the rich and giving to the poor, and the result was always everybody was worse off except the people who ran the government.

Norway seems to be doing swell.

It's nice to live on top of an ocean of oil to cover the deficits.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#163

Post by intended » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:25 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #16

randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

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> How does creating wealth hurt others?

There is a sleight of hand in your words there.

You focus on wealth creation, when the issue is wealth concentration.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#164

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:25 AM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #156

WalterBright wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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All of us. Fees, commercial and residential rents, products that cost the same but are smaller. None of this generating new wealth.

Don't buy something you think is not worth the money.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#165

Post by pixelatedindex » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:27 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #124

stopping wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the top 10% of people suddenly had their wealth double overnight, it would have absolutely disastrous effects for the lower 90% of people. Prices for scarce goods (e.g. housing) would increase dramatically. The price increase dampens the overall demand for housing since a large fraction of the 90% are now priced out. The wealthy homeowners have an incentive to maintain that scarcity, and freely use their resources…

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You’re missing the forest for the trees. Yeah the item cost doesn’t double, but it goes up significantly because now your addressable market has 2x money.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#166

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:27 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #136

WalterBright wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Grain prices are today set by derivative markets that have very little connection to actual produce.

Watch what happens to prices when the supply goes up or down. Talk to any farmer about it.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#167

Post by andsoitis » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:28 AM UTC

randycupertino wrote: post #10

I would say with inflation, wealth inequality and skyrocketing housing, gas and grocery prices as well as super high amounts of consumer debt and families stretching to keep up it feels a lot like pre-bust 2005/2006 economy out there right now. We might not be on the cusp of a subprime mortgage bank crisis but it does feel ominous lately.

> wealth inequality

Can you explain what is wrong with people having different levels of wealth?

Or asked differently, if it is bad, should every individual have the exact same wealth?

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#168

Post by intended » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:28 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #133

mlsu wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piketty argues that if r > g, wealth will accumulate into fewer and fewer hands over time. R is the rate of return of capital (rents, stocks, bonds, etc) and g is the growth of the economy over time. If the economy grows at a higher rate than the rate of return, the pie gets bigger at a higher rate than wealth can concentrates. If the rate of return accumulates capital at a higher rate than the growth of the economy,…

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Then you are using terms in a manner that is effective for semantic victory, but not the spirit of actual discussion the other users are engaging in.

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#169

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:29 AM UTC

_carbyau_ wrote: post #138

WalterBright wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

???

Me giving you a dollar doesn't create. The rich extracting wealth from the poor doesn't create. Investors buying existing housing stock doesn't create. Mine it. Make it. Improve it. Brings wealth into existence. Note that financially large businesses/individuals are a mix of wealth creation and transference. That one word comment implies a lot of the wealthiest people have not created much wealth in comparison with h…

But you aren't going to give me a dollar.

The rich will sell you things they created, but it is illegal for them to extract it from you.

Buying existing houses means the seller realizes the wealth he created.

Transference is called "stealing" and is illegal (unless the government does it).

Re: American capitalism has taken an apocalyptic turn

#170

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jun 04, 2026, 5:30 AM UTC

srean wrote: post #92

WalterBright wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating wealth means the pie gets bigger by that amount. And no, wealth is not the amount of liquid cash you have. If that were true, I'd be dead broke. > the rate of growth of the pie certainly does not feel like it is growing as fast as accumulation of nominal wealth of some. Wealth creators will be growing the pie at a higher rate than those who do not create wealth.

I agree that's the theory. It used to be mostly true in the past, but given current valuations it does not look true at all. My worry is that we are not creating enough new wealth but just distributing it lopsidedly.

> just distributing it lopsidedly

Wealth is not being distributed. A laborer gets paid for the value he creates. There's no "distribution" going on (except by the government).