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Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

reuters.com

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Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#161

Post by RandallBrown »

It's not exactly an "age" bias, it's a bias against people that aren't like them.

If I was hiring a CEO, someone who would be my boss, I'm definitely going to pick someone that seems like a person I could get along with. If a guy walks into the interview with a suit on and I'm wearing jeans and a hoodie, it could be a sign that we aren't going to get along all that well.

If the old guy came in and seemed like he could relate to me though, I wouldn't have a problem at all hiring him.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#162

Post by ryguytilidie »

To be fair, when I'm 40 I can't imagine still wanting to work 12+ hours a day. I'd like to see my family. This alone makes me feel like the age bias is caused more by people realizing the work won't work with their goals. The article itself seems a bit off since it doesn't deal with data so much as a single anecdote.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#163

Post by jlgreco »

rayiner wrote: post #150
w1ntermute wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the same category. I don't enjoy drinking and I hate most video games, especially console ones and especially FPSes. The SV frat culture is such a turnoff.

What's absolutely hilarious about it is that it's not the same frat culture that typifies Wall Street. It's the nerd frats.

Despite being a "nerd", I think the more traditional sort of 'frat' is actually a lot more inviting. Without the video-game nonsense I think it is actually more accepting of lifestyles that don't involve primarily a couch. The thought of spending my own freetime playing video-games is revolting to me, I associate it with depression and loneliness (yes, online or otherwise multiplayer games too). It really seems like one of those all-or-nothing activities where you either spend hours a week doing it, living it, or you are forever the outsider.

Sure you can game in moderation, but if you do so you won't be a gamer. I think I average maybe a handful of hours a month playing games, and that is as much as I will ever see myself caring to spend on them. There is no way for me to relate to people who call themselves gamers.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#164

Post by namank »

A forty year old has an inclination for success and is therefore suited best for companies in the growth phase.

Twenty year olds seem to be naive enough to go for the impossible.

Or at least that's the mass perception. I think this also might be the reason for this pseudo-agism. (of course Elon Musk if the perfect counter example)

I equate 20 vs. 40 with Entrepreneur vs. MBA. Same perceptions, similar stereotypes, same utility.

That said, I love it when a person 20 years older than me actively guides my inclination towards "big" without stifling it, regarding it as idiotic, or being indifferent to it. I LOVE partnering up with older folks - they are professional in the true sense of the word - they can do what they do even when they are having a bad day. And they like partnering withe me because, I think, in me they see themselves when they were this old. It's amazing how much you can learn from people who've been there, done that!

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#165

Post by stcredzero »

magicalist wrote: post #126
stcredzero wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineers are naturally skeptical, but this skepticism can grow out of control. You've hit on one of the most important quality filters here. If someone is really, deeply intelligent, one of their analysis tasks will include a diligent try at making your idea work. The weirder your idea, the more curious about it they will be.

As a person who doesn't really believe in the innately "deeply intelligent", I'll add that this is a skill that can be practiced, like any other, and the more curiosity you cultivate and act upon, the more you'll learn and get better at learning. You'll be much more pleasant to be around (instead of being known as a knee-jerk critic) and before you know it, they skills and insight you gain may have people calling you…

Deeply intelligent is as deeply intelligent does.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#166

Post by stevewillows »

freyr wrote: post #142
codewright wrote: post #10

Dirty yes, secret no. Straight talk: I'm the CTO at a startup and I often have to call out the founders and employees for ageism. I resent that they say things that make me think they wouldn't take hiring an experienced engineer seriously. I resent that they think my profession is best served by dumb happy newbies with no private life. I refuse to tolerate this in any company I work for and I will ceaselessly call th…

> I refuse to tolerate this in any company I work for and I will ceaselessly call them out for this ageism. And yet they appointed a 24 year old as CTO. Better pack up your stuff, since you refuse to tolerate it.

Just because he's young doesn't mean it's ageism.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#167

Post by rayiner »

seiji wrote: post #20
holograham wrote: post #2

would love to hear pg weigh in on this...

Let me ragechannel pg for a minute: People are not created equal. Some are much smarter and much more capable than others. Once you reach a certain age, if you haven't "made it," you aren't one of the smarter and much more capable people. Being younger, you both don't know what you don't know and you haven't become set in unchangeable broken ways yet. Google likes to hire young so they can brainwash you into being "g…

> Once you reach a certain age, if you haven't "made it," you aren't one of the smarter and much more capable people.

This is premised on the assumption that everyone was trying to "make it" at 22. Outside the little SV social network bubble, founders are generally older with a deep well of experience in a problem domain. I worked at two companies run by their original founders. The founders at both companies were in their late 30's or 40's when they started the companies. They had PhD's, years of experience in the field, numerous papers to their name, and extensive professional networks. They weren't trying to "make it" at 22--they were working in the industry building up a solid foundation for starting a business.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#168

Post by pyre »

Permit wrote: post #152
codewright wrote: post #10

Dirty yes, secret no. Straight talk: I'm the CTO at a startup and I often have to call out the founders and employees for ageism. I resent that they say things that make me think they wouldn't take hiring an experienced engineer seriously. I resent that they think my profession is best served by dumb happy newbies with no private life. I refuse to tolerate this in any company I work for and I will ceaselessly call th…

Doesn't shit-talking Nutrivise in a public forum kind of reflect poorly on both of you? I'm always weirded out by people who call-out their employer in a public space like that...

  > I'm always weirded out by people who call-out
  > their employer in a public space like that...
The egg is apparently on your face. codewright did not mention his/her employer, and with no personal details in the user profile, I'm curious how you would consider this 'calling out' one's employer.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#169

Post by LastManStanding »

debacle wrote: post #78
LastManStanding wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should have happened long ago, and from what I have heard, Y-Combinator would be the best place to start.

You're making serious accusations against an individual and a company based solely on things you have read about on the Internet or heard anecdotally. Wake up. Discrimination is not cut and dry, law is not cut and dry, and reality is not cut and dry.

I am not making any accusations against anyone - it is obvious that Paul Graham has an age bias - he says so all over the place, but there is no law against having a bias. Age discrimination is almost impossible to prove, but if it is being used in the decisions of who gets into Y-Combinator someone should look into it.

Re: Silicon Valley's dirty secret - age bias

#170

Post by eli_gottlieb »

seiji wrote: post #52
sdoowpilihp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of things do narcissists do on the weekend that would be specifically limited by age?

Many SV startups are proxies for being a close knit frat. Hiring for "cultural fit" has gone way off the wacko deep end. (Did google start this? "Oh, you don't have a degree? We won't hire you. Oh, but you do make your own beer and wear funny shoes? Cultural fit! Hired!") Your job description skills matter, but only if you also are a functional alcoholic who is addicted to playing online games for 30+ hours a week in…

I do drink socially and for religious reasons, but I'm far more inclined to playing Prince of Persia or Diddy Kong Racing than some random recent FPS. Oy, does that disqualify me from all of Silicon Valley? I guess I'll just have to make do...
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