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MCP is dead?

quandri.io

161–170 of 444 posts

Re: MCP is dead?

#161
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically MCP is little more than a brand name for "APIs LLM's can use". This means more services are creating APIs, because xyz company who's never been super tech forward doesn't want their tools to be obsolete when everyone uses agents. Overall, I am in favor of this goal. I'm not sure this is the protocol I'd choose to accomplish it, but it's the one people hear about, and the one they're using.

"and the one they're using." no it's not. Agents are just making REST calls and that's it. The best thing a company can do to make their stuff 'agent ready' is to make sure the lllm.txt docs are clear-cut and ready for the AI with clear instructions for agentic use. 'MCP' is frankly a hurdle. Now - it probably does make sense to add MCP, because it's not expensive at all, and some will like that use case, it maybe ga…

I would say the truth[tm] is likely somewhere in the middle ground. Right now corporate MCP deployments happen to satisfy two very specific stopgap niches:

    * Internal services that never had real APIs are getting them retrofitted via the MCP layer
    * MCP servers can run with dedicated service accounts that assume-role to a safe(r) subset of the calling user's permissions
The first one is a business benefit. Enterprises tend to have a lot of data siloes, and coordination between teams/departments/units just to learn that a given data set exists takes a LOT of time - even before you start to arrange suitable access to any of them.

The second one addresses a much deeper architectural chasm. We want to have our agents carry nearly-the-same-but-not-the-most-dangerous permissions as we do. No regulated business can risk unleashing agents with zero judgement capacity to wreck their systems, and on the other hand the existing identity systems are not geared for real-time dynamically adjusted user permissions. The need for so called "agent-aware IAM" is urgent. So instead of letting users connect to the internal APIs directly with their full suite of powers, MCP servers act as stand-ins for API gateways.

MCPs are not as flexible as full-fledged CLI tools, and that's a bit of a shame. But they can also become identity-aware proxies that enforce the intended permissions for agent-safe use. It will probably take years before IAM systems can adapt to the needs of the new world, and it will take another DECADE after that for the improved IAM systems to become universally available across the larger enterprises. So in a big way I agree with you:

> MCP is a 'weak externalization' - people are using it because others are using it, and it's a 'workable' but 'not strong' solution.

"Workable" is a load-bearing term. MCP servers are by no means perfect, but they are good enough for specific needs and allow to move the balancing point as needed while the world catches up.

I'm an engineer and prefer CLI or raw API access 99% of the time. But I also have decades of scars from infosec. The single biggest security threat for a business used to be an employee who could not get their job done. They found ways to work around the roadblocks. These days the single biggest threat is an employee who can not get their job done, but has an infinitely patient agent with vast latent capabilities at their disposal.

Re: MCP is dead?

#162
post #123
post #22

I run the team at OpenAI that's responsible for the ChatGPT App Store, Codex plugins, and all things MCP. The thing that all these "MCP is dead" posts are missing is that whether or not MCP is used as a transport protocol is actually completely irrelevant. The reason MCP isn't dead is because practically ~every company on the planet is building an MCP server. I know this because we interact with all of them. Most of…

Have you heard of the Ask Protocol? ( https://abject.world/ask-protocol/ ). I might be biased because I came up with it, but we are over complicating these systems. There is a simpler way, and it appears to work well since I built a system using it to test the idea.

Main points that came to my mind:

- I think the comparison to TCP/DNS/BGP is the more apt one compared to MCP/A2A

- Those protocols negotiate capabilities and exchange information about themselves, but not in a self-serving manner of just talking about themselves, but with the goal of ultimately transporting data for a higher layer. Ask Protocol lacks that.

- Objects don't exist in a vacuum, but in a context. As the objects will only know about themselves they will always be limited in how to describe themselves best. An LLM that lives on the outside and just gets a static description of an object will be in a much better description to answer an "ask" query.

- Given that the existing agent protocols you are putting it in a context in already come with "description" fields and the like, the protocol seems too little of a value add to actually target. e.g. there is no benefit for a MCP server to conform to the prescribed manifest rather than implementing a freeform "ask" tool.

- If you want to actually bring the point across that it "occupies a different position" than transport/agent protocols, don't put it into a comparison matrix where you force it into the same schema

- ("Open Source" doesn't count as governance)

Re: MCP is dead?

#163
post #112
post #22

I run the team at OpenAI that's responsible for the ChatGPT App Store, Codex plugins, and all things MCP. The thing that all these "MCP is dead" posts are missing is that whether or not MCP is used as a transport protocol is actually completely irrelevant. The reason MCP isn't dead is because practically ~every company on the planet is building an MCP server. I know this because we interact with all of them. Most of…

I would bet that MCP is going to die. The main reason is that it adds another layer (and human) that can, and probably will, get out of sync with the real-world implementation, whether that implementation is an API, web, or a CLI. AI should not be using a protocol or set of instructions that is different from what humans have access to (know and use). Sure, companies want to expose MCP servers because it is the cool…

I usually just generate the MCP server spec from existing openapi/swagger spec, maybe with a filter to omit certain endpoints and so on.

Re: MCP is dead?

#164
post #22

I run the team at OpenAI that's responsible for the ChatGPT App Store, Codex plugins, and all things MCP. The thing that all these "MCP is dead" posts are missing is that whether or not MCP is used as a transport protocol is actually completely irrelevant. The reason MCP isn't dead is because practically ~every company on the planet is building an MCP server. I know this because we interact with all of them. Most of…

On browser/computer use: I wish I could try them. But since OpenAI is going down the Apple path of cherry-picking random features to block in the EEA, without much explanation or timeline as to when they will be available (or even why they are blocked in the first place), I am unsure if I will be able to in this lifetime.

Re: MCP is dead?

#165
Isn't MCP just a way to give agent tools? When you are building your own agent, you can define the tools manually, but if you're using something existing like opencode, how do you add new tools as a user? You use the API for that which is currently MCP. Saying MCP is dead is kind of like saying tools are dead, which is definitely not true because all modern LLM agents are trained for tool use and you wouldn't have agents without it.

The problems listed on the article are problems with specific tools that have large tool descriptions. This has nothing to do with MCP. There is nothing in MCP that would cause the tool descriptions to use more context than they would otherwise.

Re: MCP is dead?

#166
post #112
post #22

I run the team at OpenAI that's responsible for the ChatGPT App Store, Codex plugins, and all things MCP. The thing that all these "MCP is dead" posts are missing is that whether or not MCP is used as a transport protocol is actually completely irrelevant. The reason MCP isn't dead is because practically ~every company on the planet is building an MCP server. I know this because we interact with all of them. Most of…

I would bet that MCP is going to die. The main reason is that it adds another layer (and human) that can, and probably will, get out of sync with the real-world implementation, whether that implementation is an API, web, or a CLI. AI should not be using a protocol or set of instructions that is different from what humans have access to (know and use). Sure, companies want to expose MCP servers because it is the cool…

> AI should not be using a protocol or set of instructions that is different from what humans have access to (know and use).

Should it? I think it can be very useful to constrain what your AI can do (e.g. read files but don’t delete them). MCP is a way to do that.

Re: MCP is dead?

#167
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in the same way a programming language would be worse off if they focused all of their effort on building an implementation instead of a language specification. You could literally, deterministically, zero AI, code-gen a CLI from an MCP specification, just like you can with an OpenAPI specification. I'm sure tools exist that do this. So if you want a CLI, there it is. But the problem with a CLI is that it requir…

So the permissions model h is a the main advantage MCP has over CLIs?

Is that so surprising? I thought that was a given. And as soon as remote resources are involved, the old "it's in a docker" peace of mind does not apply.

Re: MCP is dead?

#168
post #112
post #22

I run the team at OpenAI that's responsible for the ChatGPT App Store, Codex plugins, and all things MCP. The thing that all these "MCP is dead" posts are missing is that whether or not MCP is used as a transport protocol is actually completely irrelevant. The reason MCP isn't dead is because practically ~every company on the planet is building an MCP server. I know this because we interact with all of them. Most of…

I would bet that MCP is going to die. The main reason is that it adds another layer (and human) that can, and probably will, get out of sync with the real-world implementation, whether that implementation is an API, web, or a CLI. AI should not be using a protocol or set of instructions that is different from what humans have access to (know and use). Sure, companies want to expose MCP servers because it is the cool…

[dead]

Re: MCP is dead?

#169
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You failed to describe what value the MCP protocol provides. If all of these companies spent equivalent time writing a CLI for agents to consume as they spend on MCP servers, would they be any worse off in terms of agents being able to interact with their products?

Yes, in the same way a programming language would be worse off if they focused all of their effort on building an implementation instead of a language specification. You could literally, deterministically, zero AI, code-gen a CLI from an MCP specification, just like you can with an OpenAPI specification. I'm sure tools exist that do this. So if you want a CLI, there it is. But the problem with a CLI is that it requir…

You prevent the LLM from deleting your instances by not granting its AWS user that permission. Whatever tool you let it use to talk to AWS is irrelevant.

Re: MCP is dead?

#170
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You failed to describe what value the MCP protocol provides. If all of these companies spent equivalent time writing a CLI for agents to consume as they spend on MCP servers, would they be any worse off in terms of agents being able to interact with their products?

Yes, in the same way a programming language would be worse off if they focused all of their effort on building an implementation instead of a language specification. You could literally, deterministically, zero AI, code-gen a CLI from an MCP specification, just like you can with an OpenAPI specification. I'm sure tools exist that do this. So if you want a CLI, there it is. But the problem with a CLI is that it requir…

Not having access to the shell is a big hindrance. I have my agent access Gitlab and Jira via CLI tools and in so many cases jq or python is used to manipulate or combine the data into a more useful format, making use of pipes and temporary files. You can of course limit what an agent can do, most easily by not giving it access to things it shouldn't do. I suppose there are no existing easy gateway methods to grant fine-grained OS-level permissions to add such things back, except perhaps `sudo` and similar tools.

MCPs are impossible to combine this way: everything you feed or get from them goes though the model and consumes tokens.

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