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Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

politico.eu

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Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#161

Post by WhyNotHugo »

mcv wrote: post #3

Finally! The entire country has been clamouring for this for weeks, and the government has been completely silent about it. A couple of weeks ago, the entire parliament (with only a single party dissenting) voted for a motion to end the contract with Solvinity, but the government extended it anyway, leaving blocking the takeover as the only option, and there wasn't a lot of confidence that the government would do tha…

For some of functionality, DigiD itself requires an iOS or Android app (for which you need to enter a contractual agreement with either Apple or Google and they decide whether you are allowed to install and use the app).

I understand that this particular path doesn't allow them to access further sensitive data, but it does give these corporations the power to block any individual for accessing the DigiD app.

You don't need the app for most functionality, but for a few healthcare related tasks, it's the only option, with no fallback.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#162

Post by WJW »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #154
hvb2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which i'm sure the current administration would honour It would've been the same administration as the one doing the negotiations, so I would assume yes. > There should be grave consequences alone for the fact that the goverment acted against the parliament In general I think there's a pretty good understanding between the legislative branch and the executive branch. The Netherlands has always had coalitions. Also,…

> executive branch I didn't think the Netherlands had one of those.

Sure they do: https://prodemos.nl/kennis/informatie-over-politiek/wat-is-e...

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#163

Post by WhyNotHugo »

jorvi wrote: post #26
mcv wrote: post #3

Finally! The entire country has been clamouring for this for weeks, and the government has been completely silent about it. A couple of weeks ago, the entire parliament (with only a single party dissenting) voted for a motion to end the contract with Solvinity, but the government extended it anyway, leaving blocking the takeover as the only option, and there wasn't a lot of confidence that the government would do tha…

It is a bit more complex tham that. Logius is the company that actually owns and manages the DigiD stack, it's just that they hired Solvinity for their expertise. AFAIK Solvinity can't access the data. I can't find it right now, but on Tweakers there was a long comment by someone on the inside that explained Logius basically had almost no know-how of how the current stack works, and there's lots of bespoke stuff. Bas…

> I also feel like this is another thing that the "fast ring" of the EU should do together. Take Estonia's stack as a base, and then countries like Sweden, Denmark, Finland, The Netherlands adopt it and co- develop it. Make it extensible for the bespoke things the countries need, and every few years check which bespoke extensions can actually be generalized and modularized.

Argentina's ministry of education did something like this with university software. The one used by students to sign up and by teachers to track grades, etc. There's a single open source modularised, customisable system made country-wide, and public universities customise it to their needs.

Before this initiative, every university was implementing their own software from scratch. In many cases, different faculties (e.g.: Engineering, Natural Sciences, Humanities, etc) each had their own software development teams developing their own independent software stack.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#164

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

mcv wrote: post #3

Finally! The entire country has been clamouring for this for weeks, and the government has been completely silent about it. A couple of weeks ago, the entire parliament (with only a single party dissenting) voted for a motion to end the contract with Solvinity, but the government extended it anyway, leaving blocking the takeover as the only option, and there wasn't a lot of confidence that the government would do tha…

> With the US law that the US government should be able to get access to any data held by a US company

Er, what law is this, exactly?

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#165

Post by WhyNotHugo »

mechazawa wrote: post #71
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because too few IT capable people are willing to work under the government's pay scales; in most cases going private / corporate earns more. So most Dutch IT projects end up with private companies, which also means that, in the case of DigID and the secure / official messaging platform, the hosting party can charge exorbitant rates. Did you know it costs 25 cents to send a message via the Berichtenbox? So when the go…

There are plenty of people who are willing to work for the government and the pay is pretty decent. But their stack is often Microsoft based and their IT is located in Apeldoorn. Who in their right mind would want to travel all the way to Apeldoorn. A good example of internal development in the government is the police. They have internal development teams.

Every person that I've met who worked in government IT in NL said they run on a Microsoft stack.

This puts a huge filters out who's willing to work for them.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#166

Post by vinay427 »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #163
jorvi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a bit more complex tham that. Logius is the company that actually owns and manages the DigiD stack, it's just that they hired Solvinity for their expertise. AFAIK Solvinity can't access the data. I can't find it right now, but on Tweakers there was a long comment by someone on the inside that explained Logius basically had almost no know-how of how the current stack works, and there's lots of bespoke stuff. Bas…

> I also feel like this is another thing that the "fast ring" of the EU should do together. Take Estonia's stack as a base, and then countries like Sweden, Denmark, Finland, The Netherlands adopt it and co- develop it. Make it extensible for the bespoke things the countries need, and every few years check which bespoke extensions can actually be generalized and modularized. Argentina's ministry of education did somet…

> Argentina's ministry of education did something like this with university software. The one used by students to sign up and by teachers to track grades, etc.

For what it's worth, this seems roughly equivalent to Moodle, which is open-source (GPL) and used globally, apparently especially popular in some of western Europe, the US, etc. [1] School systems can and do of course customise it as needed.

[1] https://stats.moodle.org/

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#167

Post by Yaa101 »

krzyk wrote: post #125
hermanzegerman wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German eID stack does also work well, just as the Austrian one does. Tbh I like the German one even better because you need your physical Identity Card and can use your phone as the reader

Maybe better, but less useful. I don't carry my Identity Card at all, unless I cross the border within EU where it is used. All other functions I have in our country app. To which I can log in using physical card, but I have other options that are online.

In the Netherlands it is mandatory to carry your ID card or passport at all times.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#168

Post by davedx »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #161
mcv wrote: post #3

Finally! The entire country has been clamouring for this for weeks, and the government has been completely silent about it. A couple of weeks ago, the entire parliament (with only a single party dissenting) voted for a motion to end the contract with Solvinity, but the government extended it anyway, leaving blocking the takeover as the only option, and there wasn't a lot of confidence that the government would do tha…

For some of functionality, DigiD itself requires an iOS or Android app (for which you need to enter a contractual agreement with either Apple or Google and they decide whether you are allowed to install and use the app). I understand that this particular path doesn't allow them to access further sensitive data, but it does give these corporations the power to block any individual for accessing the DigiD app. You don'…

Which tasks? I use DigiD with SMS and I've never needed to install an app, I have healthcare etc etc.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#169

Post by davedx »

DoneWithAllThat wrote: post #164
mcv wrote: post #3

Finally! The entire country has been clamouring for this for weeks, and the government has been completely silent about it. A couple of weeks ago, the entire parliament (with only a single party dissenting) voted for a motion to end the contract with Solvinity, but the government extended it anyway, leaving blocking the takeover as the only option, and there wasn't a lot of confidence that the government would do tha…

> With the US law that the US government should be able to get access to any data held by a US company Er, what law is this, exactly?

CLOUD Act.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#170

Post by davedx »

madbo1 wrote: post #135

This is exactly why privacy by architecture matters more than privacy by policy. The Netherlands trusted a policy ("Solvinity can't access the data") but the architecture allowed it anyway. The only real solution is cryptographic sovereignty systems where even the vendor mathematically cannot access user data, regardless of what US law says. Not we promise we won't look but we literally cannot look. Building somethin…

> The only real solution is cryptographic sovereignty systems where even the vendor mathematically cannot access user data, regardless of what US law says.

...OR, we host our data in our own countries with companies incorporated in our countries. (Sovereign cloud)

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