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US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

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Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#161

Post by vitally3643 »

ffaccount2 wrote: post #52
graemep wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans (and not just the EU) think they still have the influence on the world they had in the 1980s when their economies were a much larger proportion of the global economy. Europeans have no idea what the world looks like from Asia which contains most of the world's population and generates a third of global GDP.

Americans (and not just the US) think they still have the influence on the world they had in the 1980s when their economies were a much larger proportion of the global economy. Americans have no idea what the world looks like from Asia which contains most of the world's population and generates a third of global GDP.

If both of these views are true (and they appear to be becoming more true every day): what happens?

I find it a little hard to believe that Russia or China or whoever in the East or South is quietly puppeting all the bullshittery happening now. Maybe a little less hard to believe that the West has just collectively decided to huff lead gas fumes and lose our collective minds for a generation.

Maybe this is just how corrupt capitalistic societies die and the East is happy to sit back and watch us burn ourselves to the ground.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#162

Post by bigyabai »

silexia wrote: post #160

Censoring free speech is the end of democracy. We must fight back against government encroachment on our rights.

The right to what, exactly? Extralegally hand over private PII to the government?

This article is not a censorship polemic.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#163

Post by watwut »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #56
dgellow wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, it is extremely difficult, but the whole union was seen as impossible the last century. With strategic developments over decades I don’t think it’s impossible

What you said comprises the exact error in logic that people make. Because we did this, this other thing is possible. The EU was a certainty in a region that is hostile to change, wants big government, wants centralization, is suspicious of democracy, etc. Free trade would be a massive change, that is why it hasn't happened. The EU is basically the logical conclusion of European forms of governing.

Frankky, you have no idea about how Europe before the EU looked like.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#164

Post by moontear »

ronsor wrote: post #128

> Companies such as Microsoft and Meta have shared the names of civil servants and academics working on European tech regulation with a senate committee investigating “tech censorship” or “jawboning”, news magazine Vrij Nederland reported on Friday. IIRC this was part of subpoena from Congress? > The cabinet has described the news as “extremely worrying”, given that the named officials could now face travel bans or e…

> "I don't know why they expect to be able to discuss policy constraints without the government of the company's place of business knowing."

My interpretation of this quote would be that it is not liked that individual names are shared of people working in e.g. the competition authority. They are saying if you want to discuss things, come through the front door, i.e. contact the competition authority which maybe has an official government liaison and don't go after a person who is only responsible for writing some regulation.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#165

Post by graemep »

vanviegen wrote: post #76
graemep wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a general western problem to some extent, but the US has a a faster growing economy than any of the big European economies. It is still a super-power.

The "faster growing economy" is basically 100% AI speculation now. If that gamble pays of the US is still in trouble (as is the rest of the world), as there doesn't appear to be even a hint of a plan of what a post-AI society looks like for anybody but the top 0.1%.

its been true for decades:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?end=2024...

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2024...

> if that gamble pays of the US is still in trouble (as is the rest of the world)

Which will probably strengthen the relative position of the US.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#166

Post by graemep »

dgellow wrote: post #120
graemep wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a general western problem to some extent, but the US has a a faster growing economy than any of the big European economies. It is still a super-power.

It’s fine, you don’t have to be the fastest growing economy in the world to be a meaningful global power and a good place where to live, get education, work. You need some level of growth, but it’s ok to no be at the top of the charts. The US has been the capitalist leader in the world for a long time and isn't going well at all, the country benefits its population very little. It’s not like only the actor with the t…

It agree that global power and the wellbeing of most people are not correlated. I think the common people of the UK were better off without and empire than with one. Many small countries with no global power have high standards of living.

However, the comments I replied to above were about digital sovereignty and soft power.

I am not convinced the future of the EU (or Europe in general) is as assured as you think it, but that is another discussion.

Americans do have a high standard of living in general and a very high median income: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

They have two big flaws in their system, both failures to provide security for the poor and for people who suffer misfortunes: wealth distribution and the lack of universal healthcare.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#167

Post by graemep »

Muromec wrote: post #135
intended wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as people complain about the EU, its the last western polity that is functioning to some degree of normal. To put it politely, America is just not, at this moment in time, with a predictable actor with rational self interest. If things continue to fail, then its simple to assume we return to the spheres of interest stage of things, at which point the EU still functions as a bloc which everyone trades with. Pl…

The EU is curiously a block that countrirs want to join

its second biggest economy left a few years ago, a number of smaller economies which collectively are much smaller want to join. Negotiations with by far the biggest of those economies have been started over 20 years ago and have been frozen for a decade.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#168

Post by graemep »

phatfish wrote: post #36
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is difficult to think of an economic region that is more opposed to free trade than Europe (that isn't a comedy country). Possibly some countries in South America? Trade within Europe has massive restrictions. I have no idea why, given the stated aims of Europe...we are posting this on a post about the Netherlands trying to protect office software ffs, people think this isn't the case. One of the reasons why the E…

The only people that think global free trade is a good thing are the top .001% net worth individuals which use it to wield power. Trading blocks (like the European single market) are specifically designed to protect their members from shit that global corporations or other nations attempt to get away with. I'm not sure what "Trade within Europe has massive restrictions." means without context. Compared to some Randia…

> Trading blocks (like the European single market) are specifically designed to protect their members from shit that global corporations or other nations attempt to get away with.

Most of those global corporations are in favour of these trading blocks - they are the best placed to take advantage of them.

The EU is far more than just a trading block. The trading block is the countries they have free trade agreements with - the EEA,, plus the UK, plus Turkey. The EU is a political union.

Global corporation can lobby far more effectively than anyone else at the EU level.

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#169

Post by graemep »

dgellow wrote: post #50
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is politically impossible. Everyone knows it is impossible because if you open up some countries to free services trade then the political basis for the EU and the traditional governing countries would collapse. The limitations on trade within Europe are intentional design. The attempts to stop the economy from collapsing with these massive government spending packages are the death throes.

I mean, it is extremely difficult, but the whole union was seen as impossible the last century. With strategic developments over decades I don’t think it’s impossible

The European Coal and Steel Community was established over 74 years ago.

The idea of Europe as a nation goes back to the early to mid 20th century, at least. One example i can find a citation for (but it was far from the first): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_a_Nation

Re: US tech firms share Dutch regulator officials' names with Senate

#170

Post by graemep »

phatfish wrote: post #44
skippyboxedhero wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would read the links in the article. The problem is that social media companies worked with civil servants in European countries to remove posts being made people outside Europe. This also happened in the UK where there were parts of the government that were able to make requests directly to social media companies to remove posts on their platform, regardless of where the poster was from. For obvious reasons, the l…

Honestly, rather a "unelected EU bureaucrat" (What does this even mean? Are we going to individually elect the entire civil service, or require elected officials to delegate nothing and personally review every decision?) than an American tech-bro governing my internet usage.

The problem with that argument is that you do not get bureaucrats instead of tech-bros, you get both
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