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Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#161

Post by cryo32 »

shreddit wrote: post #132
cryo32 wrote: post #57

I have seen some of the inside of this and it's not quite as clear cut. One side of this is driven by a bunch of not too reputable think tanks behind the scenes who persuaded a couple of fringe academics to agree with them and push for it via the civil service. The government is taking bad, paid for advice. I don't know what the agenda is there but there is one and I reckon it's commercial. Probably a consortium of b…

Why does your last sentence sound like something yoda would say?

Probably the massive hangover I have. Sorry.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#162

Post by Forgeties79 »

foldr wrote: post #46
rvnx wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would sound like an advertisement though, so in some way it’s better they don’t mention it

It’s better to hide conflicts of interest? (Edit: I don’t disagree with Mozilla’s position, but failure to declare an obvious conflict of interest undermines their credibility.)

It’s in the document they link pretty early on. You can argue they could make it more obvious in the blog I guess but that’s flimsy IMO and calling it hidden isn’t accurate

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#163

Post by foldr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #112

Is the charitable reading of whatever’s going on in Europe right now that European states don’t believe they can hold American tech giants accountable to their laws? I genuinely don’t see why a law banning under-14 year olds from social media wouldn’t be the first step.

This isn't only happening in Europe: https://ondato.com/blog/florida-age-verification-law/

The real answer to what's going on is one that HN doesn't like to consider. It's simply that a lot of people in a lot of countries are worried about what children are able to access on the internet and want the government to help restrict it.

I don't support these sorts of restrictions. However, HN seems completely unable to have a sensible discussion about them because most posters are convinced that this is all part of some kind of sinister authoritarian scheme. In reality, it's just some bad legislation pushed by various people who largely have good motives, and who are concerned about something that is a real problem.

The bad legislation should be opposed. In order to do so effectively, we have to address the actual concerns driving it, rather than railing ineffectually against a largely imaginary authoritarian conspiracy.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#164

Post by freedomben »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

While I agree with your comment at a high level, simply saying it's the parents job k thx bai is not going to cut it. Parents have to have the tools we need to do our jobs. I don't want the government touching it with a 10 foot pole, and no adults should have to give up their freedoms (these kids will be adults some day after all, so even if we're doing it "for the kids" we need to consider the world we're building for them), but the tools available to parents right now are way too inadequate, unless mom and dad are rich enough to buy enterprise-level tooling.

If we don't want to lose our freedoms, we need to offer constructive and realistic solutions that don't involve the government. Simply saying "not my problem" may feel good, but it's going to end up with a government-enforced tech dystopia.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#165

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ryandrake wrote: post #150
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the idea of a whitelist enforced on device for local accounts used by children What’s wrong with making it the social media companies’ problem? If they sign up a child, they get fined. Everyone is then incentivized to come up with solutions. If some of those are shit, restrict them. If they’re not, great.

> If they sign up a child, they get fined. Everyone is then incentivized to come up with solutions. This already is the threat, and all the solutions social media comes up with are eerily “Age Verification” shaped. They are all going to be shitty.

> They are all going to be shitty

But constrained to those using the platforms. My issue with these broader measures is even if I don't use social media, I'm still caught up in the dragnet.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#166

Post by foldr »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #162
foldr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s better to hide conflicts of interest? (Edit: I don’t disagree with Mozilla’s position, but failure to declare an obvious conflict of interest undermines their credibility.)

It’s in the document they link pretty early on. You can argue they could make it more obvious in the blog I guess but that’s flimsy IMO and calling it hidden isn’t accurate

Fair enough. Yes, it is in the linked document. I agree that's sufficient. I was responding to people suggesting that Mozilla didn't need to declare this at all.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#167

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ryandrake wrote: post #152
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #112

Is the charitable reading of whatever’s going on in Europe right now that European states don’t believe they can hold American tech giants accountable to their laws? I genuinely don’t see why a law banning under-14 year olds from social media wouldn’t be the first step.

Because it’s not a good idea, everyone else becomes inconvenienced and/or subject to spyware just to arbitrarily age-limit something that doesn’t have to be age limited, and despite that inconvenience, it will inevitably be worked around by motivated 13 year olds.

> to arbitrarily age-limit something that doesn’t have to be age limited

There is evidence of a growing consensus that this does have to be age limited. Both in the research and in voter polls. (I personally believe in it.)

> it will inevitably be worked around by motivated 13 year olds

The same goes for liquor and cigarette laws. They're still of net benefit.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#168

Post by Forgeties79 »

foldr wrote: post #166
Forgeties79 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s in the document they link pretty early on. You can argue they could make it more obvious in the blog I guess but that’s flimsy IMO and calling it hidden isn’t accurate

Fair enough. Yes, it is in the linked document. I agree that's sufficient. I was responding to people suggesting that Mozilla didn't need to declare this at all.

All good. I also tuned down my language a little bit there, that came off as a little harsh and lecturing, sorry about that

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#169

Post by cowpig »

verisimi wrote: post #160
heresie-dabord wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't answer the question of "what do we do about parents that don't do their job properly." Nor can it, because it takes a village to raise a human being. And in this (global) village, we have determined that we will monetise everything... and for the victims, there's thoughts and prayers. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_and_prayers

Is your child my child? Should I involve myself in how you choose to bring up the child, if you espouse ideas I disagree with?

We should be involving our community members more in the exchange of ideas, and digital sources of information quite a bit less.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#170

Post by coffeefirst »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

Okay. How?

I have a little boy. He does not use computers yet. One day he will. His friends will have YouTube or it’s spiritual successor and everyone in his school will be on TikTok where they’re hammered with whatever brainrot gets the most engagement.

What do you propose, exactly?

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