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Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

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Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#161

Post by tensor »

tadfisher wrote: post #158
tensor wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I live in a place that hasn't seen progress and still uses physical cash." Isn't really useful to those of us who live in places that don't even use cash. Also, I don't really want to go back to using physical cash thanks.

Progress, as in, you've gained the privilege of third parties tracking every payment and every bill you've split with friends, sure. Let's be realistic; payment services are convenient, but not advantageous in every single way.

I don’t have an issue with my bank tracking my purchases. In fact I like it. Not everyone wants to live in a constant state of looking over your shoulder. If we’ve reached that point the problem is not the banks, but the other parties. Going back to old technology is not a solution I want. Regulating the problem areas would be better.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#162

Post by em-bee »

izacus wrote: post #98
em-bee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are being downvoted because the article considers de-googled versions of android acceptable. and neither are dependent on google in the sense that even if google stopped publishing android source altogether they could continue to develop the versions they already have. that's the whole point of Free Software and Open Source.

Yeah, and that's utter nonsense. Noone is really stepping up to develop Android beyond repackaging it. If Google decides to remove a feature, GrapheneOS and other forks will end up without it too. If they stop publishing security patches, the forks end up insecure too. It's just like all the Chrome "forks" when ManifestV2 died. None of them survived for more than a few versions until maintainers lost interest. Callin…

ok, that's probably not the popular opinion, but a reasonable argument.

i think though that the chrome manifestV2 support example is not really applicable to your argument though. chrome still exists, and the removal of a feature is not the same thing as stopping to release sources altogether. if google had stopped releasing chrome sources then some chrome forks with v2 support would still exist. same i believe would be true if google stopped android releases.

same goes for security patches. a lot of effort in forks now is put in keeping up with android (and chrome) releases. if those releases stop then the effort would be able to shift towards security patches. would it be better or worse? hard to say. depends on the resources the forks would manage to gather to do the work.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#163

Post by api »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

It's mind blowing that we've allowed the development of a de-factor personal ID device absolutely controlled by an oligopoly of two private corporations.

Do people realize that this means either of these companies, since they can remotely turn off your account or device, can deplatform you from society including from many government services?

It's an astounding amount of power we have simply ceded to these two companies.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#164

Post by spankibalt »

epolanski wrote: post #108
amunozo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.

This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in di…

First and foremost: I'm sorry for you. Living in a participation-dictated-by-app hellscape sucks. But most people only realize this when the magical one or two steps happen that force them to "touch grass".

With regards to specific points that match with my reality:

> "My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise."

I worked for a company where that was a thing. Easy fix: They issued me (and others) a smartphone for that. And that slab never left the workplace either; I fetched/returned it before/after my day by notifying the security desk.

Everything else on your list is either irrelevant or unnacceptable to me, or simply illegal where I live.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#165

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

"As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself."

Classic "all-or-nothing", "black and white" HN comment

No middle ground. Two extremes and nothing in between

In the real world, few people think this way

Not only that, but it's common today to have more than one computer

There is no shortage of HN comments that keep claiming "banking apps" as an argument against any alternatives to using a single phone running a corporate mobile OS _for everything they do with a computer_, not just banking. Feels like a meme

These people must do a lot of banking on the go in places where laptops, for instance, cannot travel. If so, one wonders why not just have a phone dedicated to mobile banking

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#166

Post by eightysixfour »

Insimwytim wrote: post #150
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't solve for services that by definition need to be accessed on the go, e.g. public transit, parcel pickup, luggage lockers, rental bikes, restaurant menus, paying for parking, etc. (some of these may not mandate phones in your area yet or may allow mobile web alternatives, these are just examples where I've seen strong pushes towards apps or at leas in many places).

> restaurant menus Well, that's easy to deal with - don't go the restaurants that openly disrespect you. Out of all the examples you have presented everything had worked somehow without phones not so long ago. Maybe, with the exception of online public transit status streaming. And public transit still works without it.

I hate when people respond like this, I recently did three months with a dumb phone to attempt to get away from iOS/Android in a major US city and it was impossible. All of the things that made it impossible used to be possible without a smart phone, but they aren’t anymore and they’re not magically back when you try and navigate life without one.

Things like paid surface parking lots. Used to you could pay at a machine or a lot attendant, well there aren’t attendants anymore and few people use the machines so there isn’t enough incentive to fix them when they’re vandalized.

Some restaurants have printed backup menus but some straight up don’t. Printing menus costs money, why spend it if they don’t have to?

Digital signage that tells you how far away transit is, whether there are currently adjusted times, etc. is a lower priority now that everyone has maps in their pocket that track the transit in real time.

Showing up to a concert early to convince the ticket window to give you a physical ticket for a digital only event, and then they want email proof or to visibly see an app on the smartphone that is glitching is ridiculous.

The list of tiny cuts goes on and on. All of them worked without smartphones but the incentives flipped and now you can’t escape and you don’t realize the backups are gone until you try it for a while. It sucks.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#167

Post by spankibalt »

amunozo wrote: post #154
spankibalt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Why does this permeate the HN all the time." It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector. > "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and ju…

Well, no surprise that it works in Germany, but I am not so sure it will in the Nordic countries for example.

And hopefully it stays that way in Germany. A state and its essential-to-life institutions and businesses (which includes cultural participation) need to be accessible to everyone. That includes people who don't own a smartphone, for whatever reason.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#168

Post by cindyllm »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #165
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

"As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself." Classic "all-or-nothing", "black and white" HN comment No middle ground. Two extremes and nothing in between In the real world, few people think this way Not only that, but it's common today to have more than one computer There is no shortage of HN comments that keep cl…

[dead]

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#169

Post by dandandandan2 »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone

Hyperbole much.

I’m a 44 year old software engin, I don’t have a phone. Have never had a smart phone, haven’t had a dumb phone since 2015.

Some things are annoying, for example, I have to keep pushing my bank to let me use email not SMS. Going somewhere new I’ll look online on my laptop and jot down a few directions on paper.

That’s about it.

I snowboard and hike and hunt and camp and fish, no coverage doing all those anyway, so much of my life when not in a house with a laptop I simply don’t need or want one.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#170

Post by dandandandan2 »

stdatomic wrote: post #113
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #76

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of t…

There was a time back in covid days where you had to have an app on your phone to go through customs clearance in Canada.

I flew from Canada to Australia during deep Covid ($15k flight, mandatory locked in hotel for 10 days for $3k, etc)

I don’t have a phone.

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